Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?
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@Black-Square Thank you so much for this amazing attitude and for putting this feature on top of your priority list! It is incredibly refreshing to see a developer who truly listens to the community when we talk about real-world physics. Please take your time to get through the release stress first, we will gladly wait for the update. This will be a Amazing realistic Improvment!! Thank you very much again!!
@Flocat89 Thank you for this kind message. It's quite easy to listen to the community when you're right! I've flown plenty of fuel injected IO-360's, so I'm well familiar with the three-handed technique required to start them. Implementing this in a satisfying manner that won't leave new users frustrated, won't leave advanced users disappointed, and won't leave everyone struggling with hardware controls, however, is another story.
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If the intention is to sell this aircraft for consoles (which I believe it is), then you probably also have to consider the practical aspects of using a controller. If you’re cranking the starter, is it then possible to advance the mixture simultaneously? Maybe it is, I don’t use a controller. But before complaints start to roll in, from controller users that can’t start the engine, might be worth checking out.
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If the intention is to sell this aircraft for consoles (which I believe it is), then you probably also have to consider the practical aspects of using a controller. If you’re cranking the starter, is it then possible to advance the mixture simultaneously? Maybe it is, I don’t use a controller. But before complaints start to roll in, from controller users that can’t start the engine, might be worth checking out.
@ploodovic Now you're thinking of all the things that keep me up at night
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@ploodovic Now you're thinking of all the things that keep me up at night
@Black-Square I hear the brain solves problems while we sleep. Have you tried that?
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I think the best way is to have on "realistic start" mode in tablet or the COWS DA40XLS way. in the cows you can activate (optional of course) that the starter crank when you pull the mix back from the cut postition so you can use one hand or mouse and have already the mouse on the mix lever so you are can push it in fast.
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@ploodovic Now you're thinking of all the things that keep me up at night
@Black-Square said in Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?:
@ploodovic Now you're thinking of all the things that keep me up at night
I was gonna ask.. have you slept at all since the release?
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@Black-Square said in Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?:
@ploodovic Now you're thinking of all the things that keep me up at night
I was gonna ask.. have you slept at all since the release?
@Esoteric A few hours of delusion sleep, apparently. I dreamt that I met Gabe Newell at a café and he gifted me an antique book in which he had written his three secrets for good game design.
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If the intention is to sell this aircraft for consoles (which I believe it is), then you probably also have to consider the practical aspects of using a controller. If you’re cranking the starter, is it then possible to advance the mixture simultaneously? Maybe it is, I don’t use a controller. But before complaints start to roll in, from controller users that can’t start the engine, might be worth checking out.
@ploodovic said in Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?:
If the intention is to sell this aircraft for consoles (which I believe it is), then you probably also have to consider the practical aspects of using a controller. If you’re cranking the starter, is it then possible to advance the mixture simultaneously? Maybe it is, I don’t use a controller. But before complaints start to roll in, from controller users that can’t start the engine, might be worth checking out.
Now that's an awful thought. Not being able to add realism just because it needs to work on consoles using a button controller. That would certainly keep me away from buying this aircraft
Surely there can be an optional helper coded in somewhere, selectable in the tablet for people flying with an Xbox controller. -
Food for thought: Most of these fuel-injected engines can be started using mixture-rich and mixture-ICO. (Of course you should follow the approved procedure in the checklist).
Starting from ICO is commonly approved for a flooded engine start, but can be more forgiving to use for a normal start since fuel injected engines can flood fairly easily. Mixture ICO prevents additional metered fuel from being delivered while the engine is cranking. Cranking continues to draw air through the cylinders, clearing and diluting the excess fuel (If very flooded, some may be expelled through the exhaust) until a combustible fuel-to-air ratio is reached. Starting with mixture rich should still work fine so long as you don't over prime the engine. It would be very cool to see all this modelled in the future, but as of right now I am extremely happy with the engine model improvements.
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@Flocat89 @Rimshot @ploodovic @Esoteric @jasmits @kityatyi @mburkhard @SadBucket
Hi All. I wanted to share a contemporaneous example of why it can be a difficult decision to to intercept user input as a developer. I am NOT trying to make an example of this user, but please take a look here to see today's example of the many users who struggle to bind the mixture in my turbocharged aircraft where I do exactly that.
As you see, I have done my best to address this in the FAQ, but there are often several different ways of accessing the same inputs from your hardware, and not all of them are "intercept-able". I have never had any trouble with this myself, but the number of users I see ask the same question, despite the FAQ, gives me some indication of what the results would be for all my aircraft if I adopt this feature. Like I said, it's all-or-nothing, so there is no possibility for an "enable advanced mixture control" option, for example.
However, now that my aircraft have been in the wild of a long time, and everyone seems to learn and get over any mixture control confusion, I am only now feeling confident that I could implement this feature without mass chaos.
Sorry for the long post. Since this is the issue du jour of this aircraft (each aircraft has one), I wanted to provide you a full explanation of why it can be such a difficult decision.
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@Flocat89 @Rimshot @ploodovic @Esoteric @jasmits @kityatyi @mburkhard @SadBucket
Hi All. I wanted to share a contemporaneous example of why it can be a difficult decision to to intercept user input as a developer. I am NOT trying to make an example of this user, but please take a look here to see today's example of the many users who struggle to bind the mixture in my turbocharged aircraft where I do exactly that.
As you see, I have done my best to address this in the FAQ, but there are often several different ways of accessing the same inputs from your hardware, and not all of them are "intercept-able". I have never had any trouble with this myself, but the number of users I see ask the same question, despite the FAQ, gives me some indication of what the results would be for all my aircraft if I adopt this feature. Like I said, it's all-or-nothing, so there is no possibility for an "enable advanced mixture control" option, for example.
However, now that my aircraft have been in the wild of a long time, and everyone seems to learn and get over any mixture control confusion, I am only now feeling confident that I could implement this feature without mass chaos.
Sorry for the long post. Since this is the issue du jour of this aircraft (each aircraft has one), I wanted to provide you a full explanation of why it can be such a difficult decision.
@Black-Square „Thank you for the detailed explanation, Nick! It makes total sense now, and I’m really looking forward to the update. This will be amazing!!
