Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?
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Is it possible that the startup procedure is incorrect? In all the Commander 114 checklists I could find online, it states that—typical for Lycoming engines—the engine is started with the mixture at "cut-off," and as soon as it fires, the mixture is quickly pushed to "rich"—essentially the same way as in a C172SP. However, the BKSQ Commander seems to require the startup procedure typical of Continental engines instead.
Thank you! -
This is the case for all my reciprocating engine aircraft. That dynamic is just not something I simulate yet, as I consider it slightly dangerous to disconnect fuel flow control from user hardware. No telling what the future might hold, though.
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Okay thank you for you answer.
So you are aware that this doesn't reflect reality for this type of engine, but it is intentional?
Please excuse this question; my English isn't that good i i dont understand your first answer not to 100%.
Thank you very much again! -
This is the case for all my reciprocating engine aircraft. That dynamic is just not something I simulate yet, as I consider it slightly dangerous to disconnect fuel flow control from user hardware. No telling what the future might hold, though.
@Black-Square not at all meaning to rub a competitor in your nose(I barely consider you guys competitors even though you're in the same lane, just peers in the S+ quality level for GA planes. Most customers probably buy everything from both) but A2A does have that properly implemented for the IO540s in the Aerostar. Maybe worth studying or even asking if it's something you'd like to implement.
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@Black-Square not at all meaning to rub a competitor in your nose(I barely consider you guys competitors even though you're in the same lane, just peers in the S+ quality level for GA planes. Most customers probably buy everything from both) but A2A does have that properly implemented for the IO540s in the Aerostar. Maybe worth studying or even asking if it's something you'd like to implement.
@jasmits yes the Lycoming IO-0360 in the Diamond DA40XLS from COWS Simulations have also made the right Startup Procedure, and yes A2A will do it in the C172 that will be released end of the year (same engine as the DA40 XLS) and have done it allready in the Aerostar, so it is technically possible.
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@jasmits yes the Lycoming IO-0360 in the Diamond DA40XLS from COWS Simulations have also made the right Startup Procedure, and yes A2A will do it in the C172 that will be released end of the year (same engine as the DA40 XLS) and have done it allready in the Aerostar, so it is technically possible.
@Flocat89 I find the procedure kinda fun in the Aerostar, although also could see it being off-putting for the product if you don't read the procedure '*!@&$ thing won't start'. However I think most people buying stuff like Black Square read the manual, or at least do if they're having trouble
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@Flocat89 I find the procedure kinda fun in the Aerostar, although also could see it being off-putting for the product if you don't read the procedure '*!@&$ thing won't start'. However I think most people buying stuff like Black Square read the manual, or at least do if they're having trouble
@jasmits for me starting a lycoming is no problem, every injection engine from lycoming will be started this way, also in my C172R IRL. The Starting procedure in the BKSQ Bonanza and Baron are absolutly realistic, because the Continental Engines have a diffrent injection system, but the lycoming (Commander 114 or other lycoming Inejction engines) will flooding imidiatly when you try to start there like the BKSQ Commander and will not fire up. Sorry for my bad english
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@jasmits for me starting a lycoming is no problem, every injection engine from lycoming will be started this way, also in my C172R IRL. The Starting procedure in the BKSQ Bonanza and Baron are absolutly realistic, because the Continental Engines have a diffrent injection system, but the lycoming (Commander 114 or other lycoming Inejction engines) will flooding imidiatly when you try to start there like the BKSQ Commander and will not fire up. Sorry for my bad english
@Flocat89 Haha I've flown some IRL but never a plane with one of em newfangled injection systems. Is my understanding correct here, that it's essentially a constant flow injection system, so you need the mixture up with the electric pump on for a few seconds to prime but if you leave it up with the pump running or even with the electric pump off once the mechanical one starts turning when you crank it'll just happily keep injecting fuel and completely flood it.
No worries, your English is more than fine.
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This is the case for all my reciprocating engine aircraft. That dynamic is just not something I simulate yet, as I consider it slightly dangerous to disconnect fuel flow control from user hardware. No telling what the future might hold, though.
@Black-Square said in Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?:
That dynamic is just not something I simulate yet, as I consider it slightly dangerous to disconnect fuel flow control from user hardware. No telling what the future might hold, though.
If you consider this to be slightly dangerous, you could add an option to your tablet so people could disable realistic start-up if it doesn't work with their hardware? Personally I'd love to see a realistic Lycoming start procedures.
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@Black-Square said in Is it maybe possible that the startup procedure is incorrect?:
That dynamic is just not something I simulate yet, as I consider it slightly dangerous to disconnect fuel flow control from user hardware. No telling what the future might hold, though.
If you consider this to be slightly dangerous, you could add an option to your tablet so people could disable realistic start-up if it doesn't work with their hardware? Personally I'd love to see a realistic Lycoming start procedures.
@mburkhard I appreciate the suggestion, but intercepting user hardware inputs is an all-or-nothing prospect. I have ideas about how I would do this based on previous experiments. It's just not something I've tackled yet. My aircraft have grown in scope and complexity by several times over since my first offerings, and I always add a bundle of new features with every release. Perhaps this will be the next one. I just need to get through the first days of the release, as it can be difficult for me to keep up with all the messages as a solo developer.
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@Flocat89 Haha I've flown some IRL but never a plane with one of em newfangled injection systems. Is my understanding correct here, that it's essentially a constant flow injection system, so you need the mixture up with the electric pump on for a few seconds to prime but if you leave it up with the pump running or even with the electric pump off once the mechanical one starts turning when you crank it'll just happily keep injecting fuel and completely flood it.
No worries, your English is more than fine.
@jasmits ok. Lycoming cold Start:
Open Throttle 1/4
Mix on Full LEAN / CutOFF
Fuelpump on
Mix FullRich for about 3 to 5 sec (depends on any aircraft a little bit)
After 3-5 sec, imidiatly mix back to CutOFF (or engine will flood!!)
FuelPump Off
Starter Engage, when Engine Starts imidiatly Press the Mix to full rich and let go the StarterOn Warm Start is almost the same but you have to skip the Priming with the Fuelpump.
when do do this all correctly it is NOT a guarante that the engine will start imidiatly, some times you have to try couple time and Play a little bit with the Thorttle lever. in this video you can see how to start a lycoming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPjMVnrfW8c -
@jasmits ok. Lycoming cold Start:
Open Throttle 1/4
Mix on Full LEAN / CutOFF
Fuelpump on
Mix FullRich for about 3 to 5 sec (depends on any aircraft a little bit)
After 3-5 sec, imidiatly mix back to CutOFF (or engine will flood!!)
FuelPump Off
Starter Engage, when Engine Starts imidiatly Press the Mix to full rich and let go the StarterOn Warm Start is almost the same but you have to skip the Priming with the Fuelpump.
when do do this all correctly it is NOT a guarante that the engine will start imidiatly, some times you have to try couple time and Play a little bit with the Thorttle lever. in this video you can see how to start a lycoming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPjMVnrfW8c@Flocat89 I understand the 'how' from the Aerostar, I was just curious if you knew owning an injected Lycoming if my assumption about the 'why' is correct. As in, as long as either pump is running to provide pressure the mixture is essentially directly controlling fuel flow into the cylinders, hence why it'll flood if you don't have the mixture in the cutoff position besides priming till the engine starts to catch.
Whereas with carbs the fuel isn't going to be drawn out of the nozzle without airflow anyway regardless of what you're doing with the mixture
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@Flocat89 I understand the 'how' from the Aerostar, I was just curious if you knew owning an injected Lycoming if my assumption about the 'why' is correct. As in, as long as either pump is running to provide pressure the mixture is essentially directly controlling fuel flow into the cylinders, hence why it'll flood if you don't have the mixture in the cutoff position besides priming till the engine starts to catch.
Whereas with carbs the fuel isn't going to be drawn out of the nozzle without airflow anyway regardless of what you're doing with the mixture
@jasmits sorry i dont have understand your last message that was not against you, i really dont speak good english, soo sorry when i dont have give you the right answer.do you mean what is the technical reason why its will flooded with mix on rich?? its the specific lycoming injection system that works different from the continental injection system or carb engines. But i cant explain you more details about that, but you will find technically descriptions online of course, i am only a pilot not an aircraft mechanic, for me it is not soo important to know any specfic system works technically in any little detail. is that what you want to know? sorry again when iam wrong
Kind greetings from Brasil.
and if you have any other questions feel always free to ask me, i try my best to answer you! -
@jasmits sorry i dont have understand your last message that was not against you, i really dont speak good english, soo sorry when i dont have give you the right answer.do you mean what is the technical reason why its will flooded with mix on rich?? its the specific lycoming injection system that works different from the continental injection system or carb engines. But i cant explain you more details about that, but you will find technically descriptions online of course, i am only a pilot not an aircraft mechanic, for me it is not soo important to know any specfic system works technically in any little detail. is that what you want to know? sorry again when iam wrong
Kind greetings from Brasil.
and if you have any other questions feel always free to ask me, i try my best to answer you!@Flocat89 yeah exactly, the technical reason. No worries haha I’ll just look it up. I’d been vaguely curious since I got into flying the Aerostar, first time I’d come across that. I’m guessing it’s just because the mixture is more or less directly controlling the fuel flow, so even with the electric pump off once the engine starts cranking and the mechanical pump starts turning it’ll flood itself unless you luck out and it catches almost immediately.
Appreciate it! Greetings from Bend, Oregon in the US
