Engine Model Accuracy
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You come in at Vmo on a two mile final? Curious, what's the difference between Vne and Vmo?
@Buzz said in Engine Model Accuracy:
You come in at Vmo on a two mile final? Curious, what's the difference between Vne and Vmo?
VNE - Never Exced.
VMO - Maximum Operation Speed.Sometimes I came with 175kts on final, 2 miles and when I reduce the throttle, the speeds drain. Lower the flaps and I get 90-85kts to land.
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@Buzz said in Engine Model Accuracy:
You come in at Vmo on a two mile final? Curious, what's the difference between Vne and Vmo?
VNE - Never Exced.
VMO - Maximum Operation Speed.Sometimes I came with 175kts on final, 2 miles and when I reduce the throttle, the speeds drain. Lower the flaps and I get 90-85kts to land.
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No problems, ask as many questions as you'd like. I think this may apply only to the Caravan, as the Max Cruise Torque was put in place to improve engine life, and appropriate for the mission the Caravan is meant to carry out.. Its a flat-rated setting established by Cessna. So a slightly different philosophy than other aircraft types with PT6.
When I use to fly the King Air, we set Cruise Power based on Max ITT. So your Turbine Duke should be fine by using ITT for cruise, and your modeling for that aircraft should be correct as well.
For another comparison, I also fly the Caravan EX with a PT6A-140 engine, which also has a Max Cruise Torque.. Its maximum cruise ITT is 805, but at Max Cruise Torque we get around 740-750 on the ITT.
Hope that makes sense?@asnamara Are these values highly ISA specific as I noted that if weather is like ISA +6, with this caravan you can only obtain lik 166kt at 8k ft, which seems really slow to me on no pod passenger model.
Also not really for this thread, but would like to hear from real world pilot. Are the lights at night really that blinding even in clear weather? I feel like they are fog generators on their own.
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@asnamara Are these values highly ISA specific as I noted that if weather is like ISA +6, with this caravan you can only obtain lik 166kt at 8k ft, which seems really slow to me on no pod passenger model.
Also not really for this thread, but would like to hear from real world pilot. Are the lights at night really that blinding even in clear weather? I feel like they are fog generators on their own.
@Persojet without pulling out charts, 166kts with no pods at 8k sounds reasonable. Pod reduces performance by about 3 kts from what I understand.. Also we don't really deal in ISA, just OAT and Altitude.. ISA + 6 at 8k is around 5C?
The lights are actually pretty blinding with Landing Lights on, we usually keep Taxi/Recog only until the very late on the landing, and only switch the full Landing Lights on just before landing as it does helps with depth perception for touchdown. The landing lights also mess up your peripheral vision at night. -
@Persojet without pulling out charts, 166kts with no pods at 8k sounds reasonable. Pod reduces performance by about 3 kts from what I understand.. Also we don't really deal in ISA, just OAT and Altitude.. ISA + 6 at 8k is around 5C?
The lights are actually pretty blinding with Landing Lights on, we usually keep Taxi/Recog only until the very late on the landing, and only switch the full Landing Lights on just before landing as it does helps with depth perception for touchdown. The landing lights also mess up your peripheral vision at night. -
@asnamara I was trying to reach maximum cruise power, but couldn't even go over 1500 torq wihtout being ITT limited. If I reduced ISA manually to 0, I could reach the 182 kt at ITT limit and 1750 torq.
@Persojet yes it seems the torque vs ITT is not "okay" right now as per my original post above. You should in all normal circumstances at 8k be able to achieve Max Cruise Torque. Just looked at the chart anyways. On the podless caravan at 8k and 5C you should achieve about 172 kts. 166 is not far off.. so once you're able to achieve Max Torque it should bring you closer to that speed.
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@asnamara I was trying to reach maximum cruise power, but couldn't even go over 1500 torq wihtout being ITT limited. If I reduced ISA manually to 0, I could reach the 182 kt at ITT limit and 1750 torq.
@Persojet also check that your fuel condition lever is in high idle. As having it in low idle will significantly affect your data in flight on this simulation. Whereas in real life, there is no difference in cruise between low and high idle. I believe @Black-Square Nick has that already fixed this issue in an upcoming update? Think I read that in one of the previous posts.
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@Persojet also check that your fuel condition lever is in high idle. As having it in low idle will significantly affect your data in flight on this simulation. Whereas in real life, there is no difference in cruise between low and high idle. I believe @Black-Square Nick has that already fixed this issue in an upcoming update? Think I read that in one of the previous posts.
@asnamara said in Engine Model Accuracy:
@Persojet also check that your fuel condition lever is in high idle. As having it in low idle will significantly affect your data in flight on this simulation. Whereas in real life, there is no difference in cruise between low and high idle. I believe @Black-Square Nick has that already fixed this issue in an upcoming update? Think I read that in one of the previous posts.
I was in high idle. Maybe they'll patch the ITT and that allows to hit max cruise in normal flight like you say. Now it hinders the performance a lot when it's positive ISA.
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@asnamara Are these values highly ISA specific as I noted that if weather is like ISA +6, with this caravan you can only obtain lik 166kt at 8k ft, which seems really slow to me on no pod passenger model.
Also not really for this thread, but would like to hear from real world pilot. Are the lights at night really that blinding even in clear weather? I feel like they are fog generators on their own.
@Persojet No. To my knowledge if you are not using HDR turning off Light Shafts in the Graphics settings fixes the issue. IRL you will see bloom like that only in visible moisture or hazy conditions (tho generally landing lights are also not as bright as they are in MSFS). HiFi have also vocalized issues with not being able to change the atmospheric density in MSFS2024... Very frustrating imo.
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We have continued to beg Asobo for a fix to the light scattering in the developer forums, but there has been no engagement from Asobo since September of last year.
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We have continued to beg Asobo for a fix to the light scattering in the developer forums, but there has been no engagement from Asobo since September of last year.
@Black-Square If I ever make a ton of money I'll buy my way into Asobo and start flipping over tables until it's fixed (amongst other more critical issues). For now we just have to be happy with what we have which begrudgingly is better than we've ever had before. It's almost more frustrating being so close to perfect and seeing no movement on issues that seem to pale in complexity when compared to everything else the sim can do.
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We have continued to beg Asobo for a fix to the light scattering in the developer forums, but there has been no engagement from Asobo since September of last year.
@Black-Square can the volumetric effect be disabled until it fixed or flipswitch for this added to tablet?
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Regarding Beta audio, I recorded some footage of the Blackbird PC-6 Turbo Porter.
https://youtu.be/ZQlqOhyAvdQ?si=NFF_1ZMaDFdaeip0
To me this sounds a lot better than the Caravan.
Regarding volumetric lights, you can tweak those yourself. In the "effects" folder you will find a number of .fx files, and one of these will be for landing lights, one for taxi, and so on. The structure of them is pretty simple, and at the bottom there is a chunk with the "volumetric" setting.
Most developers set that to 1, which makes it look like they are shining through fog even if there isn't any. If you set it to 0, then you don't see them at all, and worse they don't interact with cloud either. But if you set it to 0.01-0.05, then you can barely make the light cone out in normal weather, and they will then interact with clouds.
I made a post about this on the MSFS forums.
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/general-su5-beta-feedback-thread/757574/367
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Regarding Beta audio, I recorded some footage of the Blackbird PC-6 Turbo Porter.
https://youtu.be/ZQlqOhyAvdQ?si=NFF_1ZMaDFdaeip0
To me this sounds a lot better than the Caravan.
Regarding volumetric lights, you can tweak those yourself. In the "effects" folder you will find a number of .fx files, and one of these will be for landing lights, one for taxi, and so on. The structure of them is pretty simple, and at the bottom there is a chunk with the "volumetric" setting.
Most developers set that to 1, which makes it look like they are shining through fog even if there isn't any. If you set it to 0, then you don't see them at all, and worse they don't interact with cloud either. But if you set it to 0.01-0.05, then you can barely make the light cone out in normal weather, and they will then interact with clouds.
I made a post about this on the MSFS forums.
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/general-su5-beta-feedback-thread/757574/367
@HobAnagerik that volumetric edit could also fix it for everyone if done by black square as it seems game developers have no intent to fix it game side.
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It's not much more than a fudge, but it would work. I've applied it to all of the planes that I fly regularly.
There are many weird lighting issues with the sim that are too complex to discuss here without going massively off topic.
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Hi Nick!
Thank you so much! What a wonderfully modeled aircraft!
Everything works beautifully!
The sounds are amazing.. The start procedure and the engine data during start and Take-off are really close.
The cruise data however is a little bit off.. I've got a couple 1000 hours on the real aircraft. and my comments on the cruise data is as follows:
We always cruise at Max Cruise power settings. on your Sim, I have the following altitude: 12,000 feet, 8 degrees Celsius. Using Max Cruise power setting of 1390 ft-lbs torque with 1750 rpm as per the aicraft POH. Your fuel flow is very close: 310 lbs/hr. Your ITT is 740 degrees.. ITT at Max Cruise power, with most airframe i have flown is between 695-710. most of them sit at 705. This is standard for most caravan at Max Cruise. Fuel flow is between 295-305 at that power setting.
The exact aircraft i flew today had the exact altitude and temperature at 12,000 and 8 degrees. 703 ITT and 301 Fuel Flow..
I know i'm nitpicking! just that 740 ITT at max cruise on your model.. should be a lot more conservative than that..
Beautiful aircraft that you have designed there! Thank you so much!
Best regards,
Amara -
Regarding Beta audio, I recorded some footage of the Blackbird PC-6 Turbo Porter.
https://youtu.be/ZQlqOhyAvdQ?si=NFF_1ZMaDFdaeip0
To me this sounds a lot better than the Caravan.
Regarding volumetric lights, you can tweak those yourself. In the "effects" folder you will find a number of .fx files, and one of these will be for landing lights, one for taxi, and so on. The structure of them is pretty simple, and at the bottom there is a chunk with the "volumetric" setting.
Most developers set that to 1, which makes it look like they are shining through fog even if there isn't any. If you set it to 0, then you don't see them at all, and worse they don't interact with cloud either. But if you set it to 0.01-0.05, then you can barely make the light cone out in normal weather, and they will then interact with clouds.
I made a post about this on the MSFS forums.
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/general-su5-beta-feedback-thread/757574/367
@HobAnagerik said in Engine Model Accuracy:
But if you set it to 0.01-0.05, then you can barely make the light cone out in normal weather, and they will then interact with clouds.
Is that really so? I'll try it immediately. On the developer support forums, we were convinced that it just became binary in MSFS 2024 (0=no effect, 1=virtually unusable), but perhaps we were all too frustrated to try crazy small values like 0.01. Of course, the moment I fix this for my entire fleet, Asobo will probably fix it on their end, unfixing it for me. I'll let you know what I find later.
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It's not much more than a fudge, but it would work. I've applied it to all of the planes that I fly regularly.
There are many weird lighting issues with the sim that are too complex to discuss here without going massively off topic.
@HobAnagerik What I'm seeing is that any value from 0-1 written in the effect file gets converted to either 0 or 1 once the aircraft is loaded. You can still adjust the effect in the lighting debug dialog, but the file gets read as only a binary on/off.
