Request - Oil Temps
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I think the oil temp issue still is there after the update. Did a quick flight at ID74 today (version 1.1) and after I landed I shut the engine down. Ambient temperature was about 30F. I waited about 5 minutes (would be passenger loading time IRL) and then I restarted the engine. I had to use the proper hot start technique but the oil and CHT temperature was down back to ambient. I think the cooling and also heating times are still way to fast. Same on the dukes btw in my opinion.
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I think the oil temp issue still is there after the update. Did a quick flight at ID74 today (version 1.1) and after I landed I shut the engine down. Ambient temperature was about 30F. I waited about 5 minutes (would be passenger loading time IRL) and then I restarted the engine. I had to use the proper hot start technique but the oil and CHT temperature was down back to ambient. I think the cooling and also heating times are still way to fast. Same on the dukes btw in my opinion.
@piperdriver0624 Yes, i have the same problem. I know the A36 from real flying, it can take up to 20 minutes before the Oil temp gauge ist moving, depending on outside temprature, but on a warm summerday it takes also minimum 10 minutes before the gauge is moving up. i also have a problem with the Engine Shutdown (cutoff), it is very to quick and i cant hear and see any vibration from the cylinder compression that is also very unrealistic and should be fixed in my opinion.
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@piperdriver0624 Yes, i have the same problem. I know the A36 from real flying, it can take up to 20 minutes before the Oil temp gauge ist moving, depending on outside temprature, but on a warm summerday it takes also minimum 10 minutes before the gauge is moving up. i also have a problem with the Engine Shutdown (cutoff), it is very to quick and i cant hear and see any vibration from the cylinder compression that is also very unrealistic and should be fixed in my opinion.
@Flocat89 I unfortunately don’t have any real time in a Bonanza but some in a C182T and without preheat I totally agree it can take very long in the winter to get these 9qts of oil up to about 100F. So I guess we have the same understanding here.
Yes shutdowns feels a bit quick like there’s a lot of friction in the engine.
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@Flocat89 I unfortunately don’t have any real time in a Bonanza but some in a C182T and without preheat I totally agree it can take very long in the winter to get these 9qts of oil up to about 100F. So I guess we have the same understanding here.
Yes shutdowns feels a bit quick like there’s a lot of friction in the engine.
@piperdriver0624 I've flown the A36 three times, and yes, the warm-up time is similarly long in the Cessna 172/182. I've also flown the C172SP several times. Unfortunately, I've never flown the 182, but I think it's similar. Yes, you can clearly feel the vibrations when the engine is shut down, and you can also see everything vibrating, only briefly, but quite strongly. That's simulated quite well in the A2A Comanche. But unfortunately, it's completely missing here.
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@piperdriver0624 I've flown the A36 three times, and yes, the warm-up time is similarly long in the Cessna 172/182. I've also flown the C172SP several times. Unfortunately, I've never flown the 182, but I think it's similar. Yes, you can clearly feel the vibrations when the engine is shut down, and you can also see everything vibrating, only briefly, but quite strongly. That's simulated quite well in the A2A Comanche. But unfortunately, it's completely missing here.
@Flocat89 the Baron and the Bonanza feel a bit more sterile I agree. Nevertheless amazing Addons. Having loads of fun with them. Hope there will be some tweaking still.
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@Flocat89 the Baron and the Bonanza feel a bit more sterile I agree. Nevertheless amazing Addons. Having loads of fun with them. Hope there will be some tweaking still.
@piperdriver0624 Of Course there are very good, a few things should be corrected via updates and then they are perfect.
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Did another test today. Airplane sat at EDMA with an ambient temperature of 10C for at least 45 min loaded into the flight. I started the engine and after 1min and 28 seconds the oil temperature had reached the yellow marker on the instrument which is about 25C/77F.
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I do hope this will be improved. Engine temperature modelling seems such a fundamental thing for a study-level add-on like this. At the moment deciding whether/when to use cold or hot start procedure seems unrealistic due to the short times. Its ironic that the manual states there is a "realistic battery temperature simulation" yet the engine doesn't seem to have one. Don't want to appear negative, this really is such a great add-on that the very few things which aren't quite perfect just stand out more.
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Bumping the topic. Hoping for a reply
@piperdriver0624 I read every message on this forum, but when there is good discussion happening, I usually let it play out so I can learn more before replying. Short answer that I have given in a few other places: I don't know why this is suddenly such a reported topic with these two airplanes, since I've been using the same constants for oil heating/cooling for years. This means that it's something I have to investigate and make sure I understand the ramifications of a change before I roll it out to the whole fleet. I will likely dig in before the SU4 round of updates.
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@piperdriver0624 I read every message on this forum, but when there is good discussion happening, I usually let it play out so I can learn more before replying. Short answer that I have given in a few other places: I don't know why this is suddenly such a reported topic with these two airplanes, since I've been using the same constants for oil heating/cooling for years. This means that it's something I have to investigate and make sure I understand the ramifications of a change before I roll it out to the whole fleet. I will likely dig in before the SU4 round of updates.
@Black-Square Thank you for the reply.
This has been an „issue“ for me with the Dukes already I just never bothered to report it honestly. I feel both oil temperatures and CHT‘s warm up and cool down too quickly. There doesn’t seem to be enough thermal mass. Comparing this to other study sim GA Addons and my real live experience this is definitely off.
I flew my flying clubs C172R on Saturday and with the ambient temperature at around 12C (airplane sat outside all night) it took my way through the after start checklist including listening to the ATIS and setting up the GPS before the oil temperature needle reached the bottom of the green.
Now I know a 172 (180hp STC) isn’t a Duke or a Bonanza and 6 cylinders produce more friction than 4 but the thermal mass of the engine itself and the oil volume is also considerably greater on a IO-550 compared to an IO-360.
I unfortunately cannot provide you with real (time stopped) numbers because I don’t have access to an A36 let alone a Baron or Duke but my experience with real airplanes just tells me that the current model is not on the mark here. I do have time in C182T with an IO-540 and that definitely takes it sweet time warming up in the winter.
I hope you can find something to improve this and please know that this is constructive input not nagging. I absolutely love the Bonanza and the Barons!
Happy flying
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@Black-Square Thank you for the reply.
This has been an „issue“ for me with the Dukes already I just never bothered to report it honestly. I feel both oil temperatures and CHT‘s warm up and cool down too quickly. There doesn’t seem to be enough thermal mass. Comparing this to other study sim GA Addons and my real live experience this is definitely off.
I flew my flying clubs C172R on Saturday and with the ambient temperature at around 12C (airplane sat outside all night) it took my way through the after start checklist including listening to the ATIS and setting up the GPS before the oil temperature needle reached the bottom of the green.
Now I know a 172 (180hp STC) isn’t a Duke or a Bonanza and 6 cylinders produce more friction than 4 but the thermal mass of the engine itself and the oil volume is also considerably greater on a IO-550 compared to an IO-360.
I unfortunately cannot provide you with real (time stopped) numbers because I don’t have access to an A36 let alone a Baron or Duke but my experience with real airplanes just tells me that the current model is not on the mark here. I do have time in C182T with an IO-540 and that definitely takes it sweet time warming up in the winter.
I hope you can find something to improve this and please know that this is constructive input not nagging. I absolutely love the Bonanza and the Barons!
Happy flying
@piperdriver0624 Luckily, I have plenty of experience flying in very cold weather environments, and used to carefully plan excursions away from the airport such that I would be back before the engine had lost all of its valuable heat. From that, I should be able to back out a realistic cooling and heating time. It's just a matter of fighting with the simulator and making sure that there aren't numerous tertiary effects that one would never think of from changing a single number.
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I bet that’s where the pain lies in all of this.
Thanks.
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I bet that’s where the pain lies in all of this.
Thanks.
@piperdriver0624 This one is also particularly unfortunate, because the only way to ensure everything is working exactly as intended is to wait a very long time for things to heat up and cool down. I've been working on this for about four hours now. The ground warmup times are good, and it will take multiple hours to cool down entirely, but now it's too slow to heat under load in the air, so there is still more work to do.
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@Black-Square thanks for looking into this. Count me as another who noticed but didn't mention it. Sorry about that. The fact that this topic is getting attention by RW pilots is just another testament to how GOOD your products and support are. You set a high bar and now we all want more :). Many years ago, I flew a comanche many times in cold weather and I remember waiting to see the oil temp gauge come off the stop after 15 minutes of warm-up. All the while thinking, is this warm enough for the run-up? Take off was often with the oil just barely in the green. Thanks again for the hard work.
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@piperdriver0624 This one is also particularly unfortunate, because the only way to ensure everything is working exactly as intended is to wait a very long time for things to heat up and cool down. I've been working on this for about four hours now. The ground warmup times are good, and it will take multiple hours to cool down entirely, but now it's too slow to heat under load in the air, so there is still more work to do.
@Black-Square yeah I do understand that this is very tedious. I wish I could help.
Thank you for working on this. These „details“ are what sets great addons apart from good ones.
Thank you!
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@Black-Square yeah I do understand that this is very tedious. I wish I could help.
Thank you for working on this. These „details“ are what sets great addons apart from good ones.
Thank you!
@piperdriver0624 I think I've hit the point of diminishing returns on this. It's much, much better than it was, but I can't get it to the point where I could create thermodynamic functions like I do for my other components. The problem is that the simulator's calculations of a lot of other items depend on the oil temperature, so my choices are to take over everything completely, or some things partially. I think you will be happy with this outcome, as long as you're not holding a stopwatch to the needle for an hour, which is the level of accuracy I usually like to achieve when I take on these features.
