Autopilot altitude select bindings
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I hate to sound like I'm second-guessing what you did, because I know better than to do that.
I'm just trying to fix my little problem (and it is a small problem, I can just set the altitude knob with my mouse in the cockpit) but as an engineer it's my duty to spend an hour shaving 1 second off a simple task I will do maybe 10 or 20 times. But if anything, maybe you can just take this opportunity to enlighten me about the aircraft and maybe even suggest some workaround.
So to be specific about what the differences are between the autopilot functions I can and cannot currently assign buttons to using the MSFS Controls Options (tested in MSFS 2020 this time):
CHP 850 HDG knob:
- H:CHP_HeadingKnob_Right -> MSFS Control: INCREASE HEADING BUG
- H:CHP_HeadingKnob_Left -> MSFS Control: DECREASE HEADING BUG
MSP-850A:
- H:MSP_VerticalSpeed_1 -> MSFS Control: TOGGLE AUTOPILOT VS HOLD
- H:MSP_AirspeedProfile_1 -> MSFS Control: TOGGLE AUTOPILOT FLIGHT LEVEL CHANGE (I think that's the one)
ALI 850A center knob:
- H:ALT_VerticalSpeedKnob_Inc_1 -> MSFS Control: INCREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE VS
- H:ALT_VerticalSpeedKnob_Dec_1 -> MSFS Control: DECREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE VS
- H:ALT_AltitudeSelectKnob_Inc_1 -> MSFS Control expected: INCREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE ALTITUDE (!!!)
- H:ALT_AltitudeSelectKnob_Dec_1 -> MSFS Control expected: DECREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE ALTITUDE (!!!)
Now for these last two, the bindings INCREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE ALTITUDE and DECREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE ALTITUDE don't invoke the variable (not sure how this works on the back end). Are you saying because for the Altitude knob/setting in particular, you had to use a different implementation than all these other autopilot controls, even though they appear on the same instrument, and thus it's not possible to have them invoked by those existing MSFS Control bindings?
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Oh, I know the obligation of an engineer all too well! I tell people that "I have a curse", whenever I'm criticized for doing such things.
Pardon me if I try to take a shortcut to the solution here, but are you basing which control inputs are working and which ones aren't based only on the responses you see in the cockpit?
If so, you're triggering "K:INCREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE ALTITUDE", and then you don't see a change in the selected altitude on the ALI. Is that correct? If so, it actually is working behind the scenes, but it's being masked by my altitude arming system, which ignores the simulator's internal value until it's needed. (Remember my other thread about the simulator's extraordinary number of limitations?)
Does that sound right, or am I way off the mark?
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I am indeed basing this on whether I see the blue altitude number increase when I trigger INCREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE. So you’re saying this value is going somewhere behind the scenes and is not used. And unlike for those other H vars, H:ALT_AltitudeSelectKnob_Inc_1 is not actually changed by INCREASE AUTOPILOT REFERENCE. So you need some other way to talk to the sim back end to manipulate that value? Obviously I know very little about aircraft controls and I’m not one of those people who has a custom cockpit with special software running it. I would guess a few more casual HOTAS users will run into the same issue as me though. The question being “how do I make this blue altitude value there increase when I press a button on my joystick”. So far I think I’m supposed to download something called MobiFlight and mess around with it.
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That's basically correct. You might still find that you can "get along" with the autopilot in some ways, despite this limitation. Once the aircraft is on its way to a new target altitude, for instance, you should be able to adjust that value and actually see it on the display. You will likely also see similar behavior with the vertical speed and airspeed during some modes.
You're right that other users will surely run into this too, which is why it's in the FAQ in the manual. Luckily, I have found in recent years that users generally have come to expect that complex addons will require more complex control inputs, so they become acquainted with MobiFlight, SPAD, or FSUIPC. Don't get me wrong, I dislike being told "it is you that must change" just as much as the next guy, but you realize how these decisions get made when you start making the software for others to consume yourself.
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Thank you, this is totally understandable considering Starship has all custom navigation systems. Most other aircraft use default Asobo stuff and I’m sure that’s far easier to develop. I hate to be that guy asking “why didn’t you do it this way?”
Appreciate you spending so much time here answering questions, ideally you’d be resting now and recovering from the crunch time.
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Thanks for understanding. It's not always an easy give-and-take between developer and user, but having great users makes it a lot easier, and I hope the same can be said of this developer. I'm always happy to answer questions! It really is something I quite enjoy about building these aircraft.
If you decide to take on these bindings with a new piece of software, please let me know if there is anything I can do to make that process easier for you!
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Along these lines, Nick, in the Duke it was preferred to use the CWS Lvar instead of the MSFS bind or Kvar, but you had an option to enable Kvars if desired.
In Starship, there's no such option, and the MSFS Kvar seems to work fine. Does the same apply to Starship in that the Lvar is preferred, or have you yet worked more magic?
Related: CWS/Pitch sync does not control VS or IAS, only Pitch mode. While that's believable on its face, I wanted to double check since that's how you set all those things in certain APs, like the JF 146, for instance.
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I still can't enter a preselect altitude in 2020 or 2024 via the Honeycomb Bravo, although I can grab the knob with the mouse and it reacts right away (e.g., in IRL as SIC I would go out to the King Air get out clearance and setup the flight plan, weights, speed bugs, AFCS, etc) - this inability to set the preselect with the Bravo but with the mouse is what I don't understand.
I have verified the LVAR bridge is installed, the SPAD profile I made has been saved and activated, I have tested communication between SPAD and 2024, all is good but I can't set my initial altitude with the Bravo. Honestly I can't seem to get any of the SPAD bindings to work in 2024.
Fortunately this is the only downside but some things would be nice to use my peripherals vs the mouse from an immersion point of view - open to suggestions.
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You say you can't get any of my HTML event bindings to work in MSFS 2024, is that correct? Hopefully someone else will chime in with a solution, since I think there are plenty using SPAD in 2024 with Starship. If you describe what you're trying to accomplish and what events you're using to do it, I'm happy to help you troubleshoot more.
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Think I just need a screengrab of a working ALT SEL binding for a Honeycomb Bravo - something to use as a go-by.
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Ah, that's because you won't find them there. Those are custom events that I've created specifically for Starship, and you will need to use some 3rd party hardware binding software to utilize them.
@Black-Square I was hoping to be able to use my Honeycomb Bravo without third party software like SpadNeXt to fly the Starship in MSFS 2020. I'm finding it difficult to find instructions on how to use the ALI-850A. When I set the altitude for a climb, then get the feet per minute working, the device sometimes just ignores the set altitude and keeps climbing above the set altitude unless I set the FPM back to zero. Or, I press the FPM button on the Bravo, and the FD light turns on on the 850A, but it doesn't allow me to adjust the FPM either with the knob on the Bravo or the knob on the 850A. It's been very frustrating. Descending is easy because of the Descent button. That works fine. Any ideas?
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@Black-Square I was hoping to be able to use my Honeycomb Bravo without third party software like SpadNeXt to fly the Starship in MSFS 2020. I'm finding it difficult to find instructions on how to use the ALI-850A. When I set the altitude for a climb, then get the feet per minute working, the device sometimes just ignores the set altitude and keeps climbing above the set altitude unless I set the FPM back to zero. Or, I press the FPM button on the Bravo, and the FD light turns on on the 850A, but it doesn't allow me to adjust the FPM either with the knob on the Bravo or the knob on the 850A. It's been very frustrating. Descending is easy because of the Descent button. That works fine. Any ideas?
@gyeltsen If you're already using SPAD, it should be very easy for you to create a profile for Starship and set all the correct events that are needed to interface with the autopilot in this very complex aircraft. You can see some of them above, like
H:ALT_VerticalSpeedKnob_Inc_1, but the rest are at the end of the manual. Let me know if you need any others that I can help you with, though! -
I have never used SPAD and it looks like a fairly steep learning curve. I was hoping to be able to use my Honeycomb Bravo without third party software. BTW, I think the Starship is great. I was the Business Manager for Beechcraft West where I had the good fortune of flying in one as a passenger a few times. If someone had a complete SPAD profile for the Starship using Honeycomb Bravo that I could simply copy and use that would be great!
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@Black-Square I was hoping to be able to use my Honeycomb Bravo without third party software like SpadNeXt to fly the Starship in MSFS 2020. I'm finding it difficult to find instructions on how to use the ALI-850A. When I set the altitude for a climb, then get the feet per minute working, the device sometimes just ignores the set altitude and keeps climbing above the set altitude unless I set the FPM back to zero. Or, I press the FPM button on the Bravo, and the FD light turns on on the 850A, but it doesn't allow me to adjust the FPM either with the knob on the Bravo or the knob on the 850A. It's been very frustrating. Descending is easy because of the Descent button. That works fine. Any ideas?
@gyeltsen I have uploaded some presets for the Starship for Mobiflight (the free alternative). Pretty much just copying what it says in the manual.
Be sure to remove any existing ingame binding for alt select when flying the Starship. Super easy in 2024 where you can just create a clean controller profile assigned to the Starship and it will swap to that one every time you fly it.
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@Avionic Do you know if you can bind the axes in Mobiflight as well? I only managed buttons so far. That would be super helpful.
@Dingle You can also bind axis in Mobiflight, but it can be quite fiddly if you are not used to playing with that sort of thing.
You can always just use a combination of ingame binding for the basic axis you don't need to change for every plane anyways and Mobiflight more plane specific things. -
@Dingle You can also bind axis in Mobiflight, but it can be quite fiddly if you are not used to playing with that sort of thing.
You can always just use a combination of ingame binding for the basic axis you don't need to change for every plane anyways and Mobiflight more plane specific things. -
@Avionic I would be happy to fiddle to have it all in one place. Do you have a place to start fiddling? I only saw a binding for throttle that works in MSFS 2024, so there must be another way to to it
@Dingle Need to figure out how many bits or resolution the specific sensor on your axis is.
Mobiflight has no built in calibration - and everything is RPN which can be confusing if you have never heard about that.
Thankfully, there is now a tool to help you and Mobiflight can show you the raw value of your axis if you don't already know it
https://hubhop.mobiflight.com/tools/
Add a 1 and a 2 and voila you have your axis in Mobiflight now.@ 4.0002 / 0 max 16383 min (>K:THROTTLE1_SET) @ 4.0002 / 0 max 16383 min (>K:THROTTLE2_SET)
For my VKB STECS it is a 16 bit axis, which means it goes from 0 to 65535.
Hope it helps.
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@Avionic Yes, it really does help big time.
So MSFS uses 14Bit for inputs in general? -> Okay, found that, with the tool you mentioned its obvious it is not in general the case!
Thanks a lot!
