FPS Degradation on Long Flight
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Thanks for another data point. I haven't been able to find any information on what the "manipulators" thread really pertains to, so I will report this to Asobo and see if they have any advice or information.
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Just a question for everyone. How many of you have Toolbar Pushback installed? Apparently it can cause this exact issue with certain addons, and it just so happens that my Starship longhaul was my first flight after installing it. I've uninstalled it and will see what happens, but I'm just wondering how many of us having this issue are also using that addon.
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Not to complain too, but it's incredible that we can get this kind of differing behavior on different systems when Asobo forces us all to update, and there are only Windows systems in play. After the one report of performance degradation I received last week, I did flights up to six hours on my machine with zero loss of performance. I also exchanged modified versions of the aircraft with the tester to pinpoint the issue. We stopped when his problem was alleviated by the BIOS change.
I have an idea of where this is coming from, but once again, these things are so hard to troubleshoot when there are only a single digit percent of users who exhibit the problem. I'm happy to walk anyone through some troubleshooting here if you're willing to make some edits to the code. We might be able to find an exact cause for this (most likely in Asobo's map drawing or database loading code) any alleviate it.
@Black-Square Sure, I'd be happy to make some edits for troubleshooting
@SinkRate I don't have that installed and I generally try to run my sim as lean as possible, only activating the add-ons I really need for the specific flight using AddonLinker
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S Sunake referenced this topic
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Not to complain too, but it's incredible that we can get this kind of differing behavior on different systems when Asobo forces us all to update, and there are only Windows systems in play. After the one report of performance degradation I received last week, I did flights up to six hours on my machine with zero loss of performance. I also exchanged modified versions of the aircraft with the tester to pinpoint the issue. We stopped when his problem was alleviated by the BIOS change.
I have an idea of where this is coming from, but once again, these things are so hard to troubleshoot when there are only a single digit percent of users who exhibit the problem. I'm happy to walk anyone through some troubleshooting here if you're willing to make some edits to the code. We might be able to find an exact cause for this (most likely in Asobo's map drawing or database loading code) any alleviate it.
@Black-Square said in FPS Degradation on Long Flight:
Not to complain too, but it's incredible that we can get this kind of differing behavior on different systems when Asobo forces us all to update, and there are only Windows systems in play. After the one report of performance degradation I received last week, I did flights up to six hours on my machine with zero loss of performance. I also exchanged modified versions of the aircraft with the tester to pinpoint the issue. We stopped when his problem was alleviated by the BIOS change.
I have an idea of where this is coming from, but once again, these things are so hard to troubleshoot when there are only a single digit percent of users who exhibit the problem. I'm happy to walk anyone through some troubleshooting here if you're willing to make some edits to the code. We might be able to find an exact cause for this (most likely in Asobo's map drawing or database loading code) any alleviate it.
I commented on another thread about this, I completed 2x a little over 5 hours flights yesterday and on release day I did numerous 1.5-2 hour flights, without restarting the sim just a shut down, start up, fly next leg, and have not had this issue. So I'll throw another data point out there maybe?
Windows 11, 2024 SU2 AMD 9950x3d, RTX5090, 64GB ram - running in triple 4K. So I'm taxing the simulator, this plane, and my machine about as hard as you can push everything and I've seen no issues at all with performance. In fact this is probably the smoothest plane in my entire fleet.
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I'll add another datapoint as well. I've removed Toolbar Pushback after reading several reports of it causing exactly this issue with certain addons. It appears to have completely resolved my issue. Did a 2.5hr flight last night with no issues at all, doing a 4.5hr flight now and will report back.
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I'll add another datapoint as well. I've removed Toolbar Pushback after reading several reports of it causing exactly this issue with certain addons. It appears to have completely resolved my issue. Did a 2.5hr flight last night with no issues at all, doing a 4.5hr flight now and will report back.
@SinkRate Thank you for this. Hopefully anyone coming here might tell us if they have the same experience with Toolbar Pushback. I will also ask the original tester who brought this to my attention if he can try this too.
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Maybe this is not the correct thread, but I was having severe stuttering issues that rendered the Starship unflyable. I raised my Rolling Cache from 100gb to 256gb(the max allowed) and the plane worked flawlessly. What a joy to have this amazing and unique airplane in the sim.
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Just a question for everyone. How many of you have Toolbar Pushback installed? Apparently it can cause this exact issue with certain addons, and it just so happens that my Starship longhaul was my first flight after installing it. I've uninstalled it and will see what happens, but I'm just wondering how many of us having this issue are also using that addon.
@SinkRate said in FPS Degradation on Long Flight:
Just a question for everyone. How many of you have Toolbar Pushback installed? Apparently it can cause this exact issue with certain addons, and it just so happens that my Starship longhaul was my first flight after installing it. I've uninstalled it and will see what happens, but I'm just wondering how many of us having this issue are also using that addon.
I also have Toolbar Pushback installed. I'll try with and without and report back if I see the FPS issue again.
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I wish I could say that removing toolbar pushback fixed things, but I can confirm that the issue is still present without it. It happens after Starship has been loaded up and operated continuously for around 8 hours. Just did Gander to Keflavik, then Keflavik to London. Each leg about 4.5hrs, with an hour on the ground in Keflavik. Right around 3 hours into the second leg, performance began dropping steadily. Maybe a memory leak somewhere?
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I never used Toolbar Pushback to begin with and still have degrading FPS and/or MainThread lag spikes.
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Okay, anyone who wants to test this for me, here is the first thing that I would try. It's extremely simple.
Locate
...\bksq-aircraft-starship\html_ui\Pages\VCockpit\Instruments\NavSystems\bksq-aircraft-starship\MFDmapConfig.jsonChange
preventLabelOverlaptofalse. That's it.There is a chance that you will have to drag the aircraft's layout.json on top of the MSFSLayoutGenerator afterwards, but only in MSFS 2024.
If that doesn't work...
I have already heard confirmation that removing both ND's and the MFD from each panel.cfg eliminates the problem, but it would be nice to get some additional confirmations that this is indeed where the problem lies.
To do this, you can either remove or comment out the three [VCockpit] entries in each panel.cfg (or in only one aircraft, if you're feeling confident of which is which) that include "MFD", or "ND". No renumbering in the file is required. Comments can be made by beginning each line with
//or;.After that, I'm afraid that it will take some volunteers to solve this one again. If any of you have already written to Just Flight about the waypoint deletion CTD, and also experience this problem, then let me know.
Much appreciation again. As you might imagine, these bugs that only affect some number of users, and none of my beta testers can be a real pain to track down, so I am very thankful for your willingness to help.
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That will simply remove the ND and MFD from the aircraft completely (you will get white screens in the cockpit, which, if I'm not being too cheeky, is a great excuse to practice your reversionary modes). Like I said, I already had confirmation that the problem lies with the ND or MFD, but I would like to have more than one data point.
The first, extremely simple test would rule out one thing that I changed/created in the MFD map, but not the ND. If it doesn't fix the problem, then I will know where else to look.
Of course, it makes little sense that this is another problem in Starship that only affects some users, but that's software, I suppose.
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Changing preventLabelOverlap to false (and regenerating the Layout.json) might have imprved things a bit but it might be a fluke. I did only one 2 hour hop with it. The performance issue is certainly not resolved.
Do I change that setting back to true before testing flying without ND and MFD?
Another datapoint in terms of platform:
Windows 11, latest version. 13900K, 5090, 64GB DDR5 RAM.
I already lowered resolution and settings. GPU is at 30% load. Just to make sure it's not somehow graphics related. -
Okay, anyone who wants to test this for me, here is the first thing that I would try. It's extremely simple.
Locate
...\bksq-aircraft-starship\html_ui\Pages\VCockpit\Instruments\NavSystems\bksq-aircraft-starship\MFDmapConfig.jsonChange
preventLabelOverlaptofalse. That's it.There is a chance that you will have to drag the aircraft's layout.json on top of the MSFSLayoutGenerator afterwards, but only in MSFS 2024.
If that doesn't work...
I have already heard confirmation that removing both ND's and the MFD from each panel.cfg eliminates the problem, but it would be nice to get some additional confirmations that this is indeed where the problem lies.
To do this, you can either remove or comment out the three [VCockpit] entries in each panel.cfg (or in only one aircraft, if you're feeling confident of which is which) that include "MFD", or "ND". No renumbering in the file is required. Comments can be made by beginning each line with
//or;.After that, I'm afraid that it will take some volunteers to solve this one again. If any of you have already written to Just Flight about the waypoint deletion CTD, and also experience this problem, then let me know.
Much appreciation again. As you might imagine, these bugs that only affect some number of users, and none of my beta testers can be a real pain to track down, so I am very thankful for your willingness to help.
@Black-Square said in FPS Degradation on Long Flight:
Change
preventLabelOverlaptofalse. That's it.Happy to report that I repeated the same 3.5 hour flight that previously caused lag spikes, and this time there were no MainThread issues I would attribute to the Starship rather than MSFS 2024 SU2 after applying the change. I'm cautiously optimistic for now. The sim is still running, and maybe I'll manage to do the return leg later, despite the heatwave sweeping through Europe right now. Win 10, 5800X3D, 4070 TI Super, 64GB ram
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Thank you both so much for testing! Please, please continue testing with that flag set to off. I wasted about a week writing better code than what Asobo had there, but ultimately decided that it was too heavy on performance, so I rolled back to Asobo's code. Apparently theirs wasn't much better! Ironically, I discovered that Starship didn't even have the processing power to implement that feature in the 80's, so removing it is the most realistic thing to do anyway! I don't know if that's what I'm going to do yet, but please, as many people posting in this thread as possible, please test this potential solution!
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Thank you both so much for testing! Please, please continue testing with that flag set to off. I wasted about a week writing better code than what Asobo had there, but ultimately decided that it was too heavy on performance, so I rolled back to Asobo's code. Apparently theirs wasn't much better! Ironically, I discovered that Starship didn't even have the processing power to implement that feature in the 80's, so removing it is the most realistic thing to do anyway! I don't know if that's what I'm going to do yet, but please, as many people posting in this thread as possible, please test this potential solution!
@Black-Square Okay so I once again don't want to speak too soon, but here's what I've got.
Changing preventLabelOverlap to false didn't do anything to solve my issue. So I finally dove into the BIOS and enabled C-States. That simple change has given me a MASSIVE increase in overall sim performance, and I'm hoping it's also the solution to the gradual decrease in performance after having Starship loaded for many many hours.
Im also an AMD user, and apparently AMD sees the biggest benefit from it.
Will advise, but the initial impression of the overall performance improvement is nothing short of incredible.
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I'm beyond excited to report that enabling C-States on my AMD motherboard has completely eliminated this issue for me. Did a 4 hour leg, followed by a quick turn to a subsequent 3 hour leg, and its still running silky buttery smooth.
@Black-Square And given that changing the labelOverlap value technically makes the MFD more realistic, I'll be keeping it that way
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I'm beyond excited to report that enabling C-States on my AMD motherboard has completely eliminated this issue for me. Did a 4 hour leg, followed by a quick turn to a subsequent 3 hour leg, and its still running silky buttery smooth.
@Black-Square And given that changing the labelOverlap value technically makes the MFD more realistic, I'll be keeping it that way
@SinkRate said in FPS Degradation on Long Flight:
given that changing the labelOverlap value technically makes the MFD more realistic
Enjoy suffering with the power of a 5 MHz 8087, haha.
Thanks for the report on the C-States. I'm glad this is fixing the issue for so many people, but it's still concerning. If case you can't tell, these issues that only present on some hardware with some BIOS settings are really a developer's worse nightmare. Please spread the word about this fix, but I am also happy to explore deeper with anyone else who can spare the time.
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Just for clarity and tracking, this is my timeline of events:
Flight 1 (1.5 hours): Severe FPS degradation occurred, dropping below 10 FPS
-> Enabled C-States (from auto to enabled)Flight 2 (3.5 hours): No FPS degradation but experienced heavy MainThread and Manipulator spikes toward the end, causing severe lag spikes
-> Changed preventLabelOverlap to falseFlight 3 (3.5 hours): No FPS degradation and no unusual MainThread or Manipulator spikes
Flight 4 (1.5 hours): No issues either
I don't want to jinx it but I'm optimistic that these two settings fixed it for me
