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Starship navigation database

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Black Square Add-Ons
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  • J jmarkows

    It will be interesting to see how it works, for sure. If you check the manual, specifically page 70, there's mention of the floppy disk reader and how you can play around with that to update the nav data... it doesn't explicitly say how or what it does.

    Be interesting to find out more!

    D Offline
    D Offline
    Dingle
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    @jmarkows Yeah, I have seen that. I am also pretty curious.

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    • RandolfR Offline
      RandolfR Offline
      Randolf
      wrote last edited by
      #4

      Ah, finally I can dust off that floppy drive I have stashed away somewhere. Knew it will become useful one day. 😆

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      • S Offline
        S Offline
        StefanL85
        wrote last edited by
        #5

        As I understand the manual, without the GNS430 fitted the Starships own FMS is only capable of using VORs, NDBs, DMEs and Airports to build a flight plan. It doesn't use RNAV waypoints or airways. This will be interesting to use and to plan with Simbrief.

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        • Black SquareB Offline
          Black SquareB Offline
          Black Square
          Black Square Developer
          wrote last edited by
          #6

          Unless I have a typo in the manual (please tell me if I do!), that should be VOR's, NDB's, Airports, and Intersections. Standard RNAV approaches can be loaded from the approach database, along with all their terminal intersections. For the purposes of most GA flying, Starship's navigation system should be quite adequate.

          To give a sense of what you will be faced with, the system's biggest limitation is lack of any curved legs. This includes holds, procedure turns, and modern RNP RNAV legs (like radius-to-fix). Unless you need to fly to the lowest possible minimums in the Swiss Alps, this last one will likely not be a factor. Holds and procedure turns, on the other hand, will have to be executed manually. The waypoints will still be displayed on the map, but with only straight lines connecting them.

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          • D Offline
            D Offline
            Dingle
            wrote last edited by
            #7

            Thanks for that answer. Still I do not really understand if I will be able to fly via a Simbrief generated route with the Starship and whether or not the FMS needs AIRAC updates via Navigraph.

            The GNS430 will be an optional feature, right? Is that an addition to the native Starship FMS or a replacement.

            Or do I get it completely wrong :)

            Cheers

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            • Black SquareB Offline
              Black SquareB Offline
              Black Square
              Black Square Developer
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              I'm not an expert on Simbrief, but a route is a route. So long as you're not relying on named airways (you could always just enter the fixes that define this airway) you should be able to enter any route you want.

              No navigation data updates are required. Starship uses the same internal database as all the Working Title avionics.

              The GNS 430 lives in the pedestal, far out of ordinary sight while flying, just as it does in the real Starship that my cockpit was modeled from. The only thing the GNS is there for is to take control of the autopilot and primary navigation instrumentation (CDI) to make flying complex procedures more manageable without hand flying.

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              • D Offline
                D Offline
                Dingle
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                That sounds like a great combination. Really looking forward to that aircraft. Thanks for taking the time to write these through answers.

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                • S Offline
                  S Offline
                  StefanL85
                  wrote last edited by
                  #10

                  I'm sorry, all I know about flying and navigation comes from flight simming, so my terminology is way off. And english isn't my first language, that complicates things. After some help of a well known search engine I think I'm beginning to understand where I went wrong. I dismissed intersections, which was wrong because it is the thing I meant when saying RNAV waypoints. So in my new and more profound understanding, the folowing flight plan is possible to build in the FMS? (the original flight plan is a bit more complex, just used the beginning and endpoints of airways): LIRJ MAREL LUMAV ALBET BRENO BRENO3A LOWI

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                  • OrlaamO Offline
                    OrlaamO Offline
                    Orlaam
                    wrote last edited by
                    #11

                    RNAV waypoints are the same as any 5 letter waypoint. The only reason they are referred to as RNAV is because they follow an RNAV airway or RNAV SID/STAR or IAP. If the waypoint is valid for an AIRAC, then the FMS will interact with it. If Simbrief spits out a route, then the Starship will be programmable for navigation. Waypoints are nothing more than GPS coordinates invisible in space that the plane can navigate to, whereas VORs and NDBs are beacons on the ground the aircraft track via radio signal.

                    In your example: LIRJ MAREL LUMAV ALBET BRENO BRENO3A LOWI, those are all valid waypoints that can be entered into the FMS. The only difference is the BRENO3A STAR might require you enter the waypoints manually. Similar to the GNS, SIDs and STARs are not available to my knowledge, just approaches. I assume it's the same here.

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                    • Black SquareB Offline
                      Black SquareB Offline
                      Black Square
                      Black Square Developer
                      wrote last edited by
                      #12

                      This is all correct. SIDS and STARS will be a manual affair. However, if you encounter a waypoint that is not in the database, you can always create a user defined waypoint for yourself, which will be saved for your future flights. This is only mentioned briefly in the manual, so I might as well mention it here too for Google.

                      If you wish to create a user waypoint, simply enter the name of a waypoint identifier that doesn't exist. The FMS will prompt you to create a user waypoint with longitude and latitude coordinates. You can then reference this waypoint by the name you gave it anywhere in the FMS. If you want to delete user waypoints, or see all the ones you've created, select the "Inspect Waypoints" page from the Index screen of the CDU.

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                      • S Offline
                        S Offline
                        StefanL85
                        wrote last edited by
                        #13

                        Thank you for the explanation!

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                        • Black SquareB Black Square

                          This is all correct. SIDS and STARS will be a manual affair. However, if you encounter a waypoint that is not in the database, you can always create a user defined waypoint for yourself, which will be saved for your future flights. This is only mentioned briefly in the manual, so I might as well mention it here too for Google.

                          If you wish to create a user waypoint, simply enter the name of a waypoint identifier that doesn't exist. The FMS will prompt you to create a user waypoint with longitude and latitude coordinates. You can then reference this waypoint by the name you gave it anywhere in the FMS. If you want to delete user waypoints, or see all the ones you've created, select the "Inspect Waypoints" page from the Index screen of the CDU.

                          J Offline
                          J Offline
                          jmarkows
                          wrote last edited by jmarkows
                          #14

                          @Black-Square So I'm understanding that there is no Navigraph integration? Where does the "built in" navigation data come from? Does it always use the WT GNS database, even if the GNS is not in use?

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                          • Black SquareB Offline
                            Black SquareB Offline
                            Black Square
                            Black Square Developer
                            wrote last edited by
                            #15

                            No Navigraph integration currently. The internal database actually has nothing to do with Working Title or the GNS. I just mentioned WT to make clear that it's the same database that all other high quality avionics use, and not something homebrew that I made myself.

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                            • OrlaamO Offline
                              OrlaamO Offline
                              Orlaam
                              wrote last edited by
                              #16

                              MSFS has it's own internal database. This is why, upon a new AIRAC update, we get "Download Update" to MSFS 2020. 2024 does this in the background. 2024 has its own flight planner utility that allows you to build and create flight plans. It isn't very good, or rather it's clunky, but you can select STARs, SIDs, and IAPs in the MSFS flight planner/tablet and export them to the GPS and ATC.

                              Previous editions of MSFS (FS2000, FS2004, FS9, et cetera) also contained their own internal navigation data that allowed ATC/GPS to use for approaches, but they were frozen in time. Some third parties created upgraded NavData for FS9 and FSX, but it was only an updated BGL and not perfect.

                              MSFS2020 and 2024 have an upgraded internal navigation database that can be accessed by developers for third part aircraft. In reality, you no longer need Navigraph for NavData in the sim, but a few developers rely on it for their add-ons.

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