TC Performance
-
Dear Team,
When comparing the data in the manual for the normally aspirated and the turbocharged variant you can tell that the turbocharged needs more runway and is a lot heavier than the normally aspirated - Which makes sense for the pressurised one. But the normal Baron with Turbochargers should perform better on takeoff than the normal one - or at least I can't think of any reason why not.
Would it then be possible to get seperate data for the P and the TC Baron?
Also, would it be possible to get some performance tables for the TC? On the internet I could only find a real world manual for the 58 and 58P, not TC.
The MSFS manual lacks data specific to the TC and also doesn't contain and of the performance tables I'd need - like takeoff distance with varying temperature and different weights or cruise performance tables accounting for ISA deviation.
Overall I'd be quite happy if there was a way to get my hands on a TC Manual including the performance section - can you help by any chance?
Greetings,
Jannik S. -
Hi Jannik,
My assumption was that the extra takeoff distance was not due to any loss of performance for the turbocharged variants, but due to the increased gross takeoff weight. Even with an extra 25HP, that 700lb increase is going to consume a little more runway.
The real challenge is finding a POH for the specific years in question, since my turbocharged variants represent a the rare 58TC and 58P after the 1984 redesign, which was only built for one year as the TC, and two years for the P. If I encounter an appropriate POH for the TC year in question, you will be the first to know.
-
Hi Jannik,
My assumption was that the extra takeoff distance was not due to any loss of performance for the turbocharged variants, but due to the increased gross takeoff weight. Even with an extra 25HP, that 700lb increase is going to consume a little more runway.
The real challenge is finding a POH for the specific years in question, since my turbocharged variants represent a the rare 58TC and 58P after the 1984 redesign, which was only built for one year as the TC, and two years for the P. If I encounter an appropriate POH for the TC year in question, you will be the first to know.
@Black-Square thanks for the quick reply.
Just to make sure, does the TC also have the increased gross weight? I assumed the strengthened structure for the pressurization caused the increase. -
That's correct. 6,100lbs for the earlier models of both, and 6,200lbs for the later models. From what I've seen, certified gross takeoff weight increases most typically come from engine performance increases, rather than changes to airframe construction.
-
Hi Jannik,
My assumption was that the extra takeoff distance was not due to any loss of performance for the turbocharged variants, but due to the increased gross takeoff weight. Even with an extra 25HP, that 700lb increase is going to consume a little more runway.
The real challenge is finding a POH for the specific years in question, since my turbocharged variants represent a the rare 58TC and 58P after the 1984 redesign, which was only built for one year as the TC, and two years for the P. If I encounter an appropriate POH for the TC year in question, you will be the first to know.
@Black-Square I would contact the American Bonanza Society, I'm almost positive someone would be able to help you
-
That's correct. 6,100lbs for the earlier models of both, and 6,200lbs for the later models. From what I've seen, certified gross takeoff weight increases most typically come from engine performance increases, rather than changes to airframe construction.
@Black-Square I‘m sorry but I fear I still have some questions
What about the empty weight? The P weights an extra 300kg- is this also true for the TC?
Overall, should I take the performance figures of the P or the normal one? The P Performance is worse and I’d say the TC is better than the normal one.
So If id use the numbers of the P I’d be limited with runway length where the not even close.
If id use the numbers of the normal one I should need less runway and still have some margin, no?
I’m sorry for all the questions but it’s kind of hard to fly an aircraft without the manual for the exact version you’re flying -
The TC's empty weight is 3,788 lbs, compared to the P's 4,010 lbs. This was already in the performance files, but I'll add a note to this effect in the manual.
I'm not sure that I follow your question as to which numbers you should adopt for the TC. The TC model does not perform anything like the normally aspirated model. The TC and P perform identically, except the P has a greater empty weight, which does not effect the performance numbers for any specified flown weight.
The pressurized performance is not "worse" than the normally aspirated at all. If you're looking only at the takeoff and landing distances, then these only appear "worse", because the aircraft's maximum weight is greater. At the same weight, they would be slightly better at sea level density altitude (325hp vs 300hp), and get increasingly better with increased density altitude.
-
The TC's empty weight is 3,788 lbs, compared to the P's 4,010 lbs. This was already in the performance files, but I'll add a note to this effect in the manual.
I'm not sure that I follow your question as to which numbers you should adopt for the TC. The TC model does not perform anything like the normally aspirated model. The TC and P perform identically, except the P has a greater empty weight, which does not effect the performance numbers for any specified flown weight.
The pressurized performance is not "worse" than the normally aspirated at all. If you're looking only at the takeoff and landing distances, then these only appear "worse", because the aircraft's maximum weight is greater. At the same weight, they would be slightly better at sea level density altitude (325hp vs 300hp), and get increasingly better with increased density altitude.
@Black-Square thanks for the answer. As for my last question:
I have a Performance table for the normal Baron. If I’m flying the TC at a weight that is also possible with the normal one I can use the value of the table because the TC will perform better, not worse.
I’m just asking because I know that neither the normal one nor the TC can takeoff at my home airport with max weight- so I need some more detailed performance figures.
I just want to make sure I get everything right.
To summarize, I’d do the following:
-When below 5500lbs use the performance table (and have margin as the TC has more power)
-When above 5500lbs use the table provided in the manual for 6200lbs
Greetings, Jannik -
You should always use the Turbocharged performance table when flying the Turbocharged aircraft. It performs identically to the Pressurized version at a specified weight. This means that the takeoff performance table in the P-Baron's POH can be used to determine your TC takeoff distances at a given weight. (Now, don't quote me to a real TC owner here, because the maximum boost pressure of the TC was slightly lower in the earlier models, but I have been unable to confirm this for the 1984 redesign.)
For the purposes of simulation, using the takeoff performance tables from a 58P POH that you might be able to find online should suffice until I might be able to find more information on the model year in question. I don't usually post performance tables from the documents that I am given for various reasons, but I will tell you this from the one that I have open for the 58P, which I hope helps.
The takeoff ground roll and landing distance at sea level varies as follows with weight (interpolated from graphical charts, which is all that is provided for this aircraft)
6,200lbs: 1,375ft roll, 2,350ft 50ft obstacle.
5,500lbs: 1,210ft roll, 1,800ft 50ft obstacle.
4,500lbs: 1,050ft roll, 1,120ft 50ft obstacle.I hope that helps get you started! I'm always here for more questions.
-
You should always use the Turbocharged performance table when flying the Turbocharged aircraft. It performs identically to the Pressurized version at a specified weight. This means that the takeoff performance table in the P-Baron's POH can be used to determine your TC takeoff distances at a given weight. (Now, don't quote me to a real TC owner here, because the maximum boost pressure of the TC was slightly lower in the earlier models, but I have been unable to confirm this for the 1984 redesign.)
For the purposes of simulation, using the takeoff performance tables from a 58P POH that you might be able to find online should suffice until I might be able to find more information on the model year in question. I don't usually post performance tables from the documents that I am given for various reasons, but I will tell you this from the one that I have open for the 58P, which I hope helps.
The takeoff ground roll and landing distance at sea level varies as follows with weight (interpolated from graphical charts, which is all that is provided for this aircraft)
6,200lbs: 1,375ft roll, 2,350ft 50ft obstacle.
5,500lbs: 1,210ft roll, 1,800ft 50ft obstacle.
4,500lbs: 1,050ft roll, 1,120ft 50ft obstacle.I hope that helps get you started! I'm always here for more questions.
@Black-Square thanks for taking the time and thanks for the explanation. All clear now - I had a logic error - no matter the empty weight the same takeoff weight of course gives you the same performance…
Greetings, Jannik
