Engaging the autopilot for an ILS approach??

Black Square

This is one of the biggest misconceptions I have seen posted all over the place this week.

Starship was originally produced without GPS; however, it had onboard systems for position estimation that allowed it to fly "RNAV" procedures, back when these would have otherwise been flown with something like the KNS-80 in my other aircraft.

Since then, all Starships have been outfitted with GPS, and many other updates to their avionics. The current owners also keep their aircraft updated with current navigation and approach data. This makes today's Starship flying experience very similar to any other light aircraft with GPS and an FMS. You can load RNAV procedures and fly to any intersection in the database. The only limitations are...

No automatic loading of SIDS/STARS (you can still enter all waypoints)
No entry of airways by name (you can still enter all waypoints)
No holds or procedure turns
No vertical guidance on approach

I hope that clears things up, but I also must add one caveat. I have gathered from recent interactions that European pilots may have a slightly different connotation to the the word "RNAV" than we do in the US. If that is the source of the confusion, then perhaps the only solution is for me to embed with the RAF for a few months and then come back. Always happy to answer your excellent questions!

raptor05121

@Black-Square said in Engaging the autopilot for an ILS approach??:

Since then, all Starships have been outfitted with GPS, and many other updates to their avionics. The current owners also keep their aircraft updated with current navigation and approach data. This makes today's Starship flying experience very similar to any other light aircraft with GPS and an FMS. You can load RNAV procedures and fly to any intersection in the database. The only limitations are...

No automatic loading of SIDS/STARS (you can still enter all waypoints)

No entry of airways by name (you can still enter all waypoints)

Better clarification- are you saying current owners have installed a GPS unit such as 430s or 650s or how are they loading RNAV procedures?

Second question- you CAN enter the waypoints for the SIDs/STARs but from what I can tell is this isn't a legal solution as the SID/STAR must be line-selectable from a database.

I'm going to open a new topic on this re: Simbrief

Black Square

This is the other misconception I have seen a lot. The GNS 430 is only there for reference and convenience in the real aircraft, and is not connected to the autopilot. However, I asked the owner who maintains the fleet, and he said that the type of autopilot coupling that I implemented was very possible. For the "onboard" GPS capability, the aircraft have a Collins LRN-85 "Long Range Navigation System" LRU (From the best I can tell. I didn't lay eyes on it myself). You can monitor the status of this GPS from the "LRN STATUS" screen of the CDU.
I can only speak to this in the FAA world, but yes, databases are required for these procedures since something like 2005. I can ask one of the owners what equipment code they file with. My guess would be /L (RVSM+GNSS) with "NO SID/STAR" in the remarks. We're already introducing VATSIM controllers to the ICAO code "STAR", so might as well hit them with the "NO SID/STAR" and /L or /Z too!

I will be curious if you learn anything definitive from the Simbrief community. Let me know.

raptor05121

For sure. I'm a VATSIM controller and threw this at a couple more controllers with more knowledge than I and we all agree, that it can be /Z since it does have RNAV capability, but if you cannot select SIDs/STARs its best to file as a /W and that will "register" for the controllers moreso for VOR/VOR navigation in terms of that will prevent inadvertent STARs placement, but the /Z with a note suffices as well I suppose

Black Square

Thanks for sharing. I was thinking the same way when my real world aviation brain kicked in and asking what a controller would "expect" from each code, rather than what might be the most technically correct.

jwilson0514

This is super interesting. Just so i understand there is no vertical guidance from the AP when the Plane catches the ILS glide slope correct? So bad weather flying or almost no visibility landings when runway is no where in sight its best not to fly in these conditions with the Starship?

dadgametime

@jwilson0514 I believe that is not correct. The glideslope on the ILS does work. There is not vertical guidance for an RNAV approach.

Black Square

@dadgametime This is correct. Your choices for vertical guidance are ILS, or the coupled GNS.

Marionettework

320 Sim Pilot has an ILS approach with GS in the last portion of this video:

https://youtu.be/z_r2WFCm2WI

jwilson0514

@Marionettework said in Engaging the autopilot for an ILS approach??:

320 Sim Pilot has an ILS approach with GS in the last portion of this video:

https://youtu.be/z_r2WFCm2WI

Perfect thank you