CTD when deleting flight plan
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Hello, I'm back from a short name after not sleeping for a couple days. You wouldn't mind, I've deleted literally thousands of flight plans while testing, and never could have imagined it would cause a CTD. Unfortunately, thinks lurk in the darkness of Asobo's flight planning system that are beyond my control.... that doesn't mean I won't have a solution for you. This will be the first item on the list.
If you could give me a little assistance: Did you select the airports themselves, or some of their runways?
@Black-Square just in case it helps -- here is a video with steps to recreate from cold & dark in FS 2020
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Thanks for the video. Those are always immensely helpful.
Update:
I've tried every combination sent to me today, and possibly 100 more, and no CTD on my end. Like I said, I've manipulated tens of thousands of waypoints for this project and never seen a single CTD. I know that's not helpful, but to say that I'm surprised would be an understatement.
I just looked at the code. The good news is that the delete flight plan function is one of the simplest in the entire CDU. This should hopefully make it easier to troubleshoot. The bad news is that it leads almost directly into Asobo's flight planning code, meaning that whatever is wrong could be at a simulator level. This would also surprise me, since I'm far from the only one to be using this code.
If someone wants to try test something for me, this might sound strange, but try activating the GNS 430 as the active navigation source (AP NAV SRC on the System Control Screen). Then wait 10 seconds before entering your flight plan again. This will disable a massive workaround I had to implement in the last two days for an issue in the native flight planner, which might give me some hints. In fact, this would be very telling if it eliminated your problem!
If that doesn't work, I might call upon a willing participant to get in touch with me directly through Just Flight Support so we can iterate faster.
So sorry that some of you are experiencing this. I continue to watch streamers and YouTubers with my aircraft right now who are not having any problems. While I'm happy that it doesn't appear to be a problem for everyone, that makes me almost feel worse for the few who are experiencing the problem!
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Thanks for the video. Those are always immensely helpful.
Update:
I've tried every combination sent to me today, and possibly 100 more, and no CTD on my end. Like I said, I've manipulated tens of thousands of waypoints for this project and never seen a single CTD. I know that's not helpful, but to say that I'm surprised would be an understatement.
I just looked at the code. The good news is that the delete flight plan function is one of the simplest in the entire CDU. This should hopefully make it easier to troubleshoot. The bad news is that it leads almost directly into Asobo's flight planning code, meaning that whatever is wrong could be at a simulator level. This would also surprise me, since I'm far from the only one to be using this code.
If someone wants to try test something for me, this might sound strange, but try activating the GNS 430 as the active navigation source (AP NAV SRC on the System Control Screen). Then wait 10 seconds before entering your flight plan again. This will disable a massive workaround I had to implement in the last two days for an issue in the native flight planner, which might give me some hints. In fact, this would be very telling if it eliminated your problem!
If that doesn't work, I might call upon a willing participant to get in touch with me directly through Just Flight Support so we can iterate faster.
So sorry that some of you are experiencing this. I continue to watch streamers and YouTubers with my aircraft right now who are not having any problems. While I'm happy that it doesn't appear to be a problem for everyone, that makes me almost feel worse for the few who are experiencing the problem!
@Black-Square Here is a video with using GNS as AP source for all the FPLN editing -- no CTD. Also checked in the original airports (LOAN - LOWW) -> no CTD as well.
In case it somewhat helps with debugging -> a potential workaround for now would to use GNS as AP source when deleting F-PLAN, or for all editing?
And also, of course, it's a magnificent bird, Nick, congratulations of the release!
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VERY INTERESTING! Thank you so much for that! That's both a good and a bad thing. It means I know where the problem lies, but I'm not sure how to go about fixing it, given that it was implemented to circumvent a "bug" (more a poorly implemented function, possibly due to a bug) in Asobo's code. Why this is only happening on some computers is a whole other issue.
Another test you could run in the interest of time, though I'm not sure exactly what it will tell me: Try editing the flight plan while the GNS is enabled, then disabling the GNS, adding some waypoints, enabling the GNS, disabling it again... each time waiting about 10 seconds after enabling/disabling the GNS. If at any point you get a CTD exactly 7.5 seconds after pushing the "AP NAV SRC" button, then I have a little more useful information.
Trying to do what's best for my users, if someone reads this and is interested in helping me test a solution for the community, please raise a ticket with Just Flight support today so that they can put us in touch before the weekend. I will tell them to look out for your message.
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VERY INTERESTING! Thank you so much for that! That's both a good and a bad thing. It means I know where the problem lies, but I'm not sure how to go about fixing it, given that it was implemented to circumvent a "bug" (more a poorly implemented function, possibly due to a bug) in Asobo's code. Why this is only happening on some computers is a whole other issue.
Another test you could run in the interest of time, though I'm not sure exactly what it will tell me: Try editing the flight plan while the GNS is enabled, then disabling the GNS, adding some waypoints, enabling the GNS, disabling it again... each time waiting about 10 seconds after enabling/disabling the GNS. If at any point you get a CTD exactly 7.5 seconds after pushing the "AP NAV SRC" button, then I have a little more useful information.
Trying to do what's best for my users, if someone reads this and is interested in helping me test a solution for the community, please raise a ticket with Just Flight support today so that they can put us in touch before the weekend. I will tell them to look out for your message.
@Black-Square another video incoming, but so far adding/deleting waypoints both on FMS / GPS didn't crash it...
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Is this what you are suggesting?
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Any addition/deletion before activating the GNS produces a crash.
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Any addition/deletion after activating the GNS does not produce a crash, even if you deactivate the GNS?
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Is this what you are suggesting?
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Any addition/deletion before activating the GNS produces a crash.
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Any addition/deletion after activating the GNS does not produce a crash, even if you deactivate the GNS?
@Black-Square nope, not really. I didn't do extensive testing on "before activating GNS", but so far it is more or less this:
- enter fplan before activating GNS -> fine
- add waypoints before activating GNS, to already existing fplan -> seems to be fine, but i might have had a single crash
- removing fplan before activating GNS -> 100% CTD chance
- after activating GNS, with GNS as active source -> can safely delete FPLAN, add and remove individual waypoints
- after activating GNS, but then switching back to FMS -> can safely add and remove individual waypoints, not sure about FPLAN, might be able to test when done with current flight
Also, this is a video of me messing with adding/removing waypoints without crash -> here
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After finishing the flight it seems that after activating GNS, but then switching back to FMS -> when erasing flightplan it still crashes to desktop
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Thank you for the extra information. That's probably good news, actually.
I think this is going to take a volunteer to solve, unless one of the Just Flight Support team can reproduce the issue. Thank you so much for the help. If any of you have the time to devote to our Starship, please create a ticket with Just Flight Support saying that you're willing to help.
I will be thinking all night about what further tests I can have you run, so we can get this fixed!
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It's happening for me as well in 2024. Simple flight plan don't think I ever activated the GNS at all. Entered flight plan and didn't like what I saw - went to delete the full flight plan CTD. Only a handful of waypoints in the plan. If you need help iterating you can reach out to me. I'll submit the ticket now.
Flight plan was:
KMDQ -> SALMS -> HITMN -> IIU -> KURTZ -> MACES -> TORIO -> 50I
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Wonderful. Thank you for volunteering. I will be sure that we connect tomorrow. I'm also glad (I think) to see a report with airports far away from central Europe. That way we know it's not some geographic or database issue. I'm still in disbelief that there is a CTD hiding in Asobo's code that only presents itself on some machines.
Hopefully we will have a solution soon. I already have lots of ideas to try, so thank you so much for volunteering to help!
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I have another test someone could run from looking at the code.
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For the following, use only airports or navaid waypoints: NO RUNWAYS, or user defined waypoints.
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Do nothing with the GNS. Do not enable it. Do not disable it.
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Try creating a flight plan with at least FIVE waypoints.
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Make sure to scroll up so you know you're at the top of the flight plan each time.
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Start by deleting the SECOND waypoint in the flight plan.
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Keep deleting the SECOND waypoint in the flight plan until there are only two left.
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Delete the SECOND (last) waypoint again. This is when I expect the CTD to happen.
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If not, delete the final remaining waypoint by the same method.
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If you still don't have a CTD, please try again at least once or twice. When you give up, try inducing the CTD by creating a flight plan and pressing "ERASE FLPN" as you have done before.
Sorry for the aggressive formatting. Just trying to make sure we get the right answers. Thanks again for the help!
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I have another test someone could run from looking at the code.
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For the following, use only airports or navaid waypoints: NO RUNWAYS, or user defined waypoints.
-
Do nothing with the GNS. Do not enable it. Do not disable it.
-
Try creating a flight plan with at least FIVE waypoints.
-
Make sure to scroll up so you know you're at the top of the flight plan each time.
-
Start by deleting the SECOND waypoint in the flight plan.
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Keep deleting the SECOND waypoint in the flight plan until there are only two left.
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Delete the SECOND (last) waypoint again. This is when I expect the CTD to happen.
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If not, delete the final remaining waypoint by the same method.
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If you still don't have a CTD, please try again at least once or twice. When you give up, try inducing the CTD by creating a flight plan and pressing "ERASE FLPN" as you have done before.
Sorry for the aggressive formatting. Just trying to make sure we get the right answers. Thanks again for the help!
@Black-Square said in CTD when deleting flight plan:
I have another test someone could run from looking at the code.
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For the following, use only airports or navaid waypoints: NO RUNWAYS, or user defined waypoints.
-
Do nothing with the GNS. Do not enable it. Do not disable it.
-
Try creating a flight plan with at least FIVE waypoints.
-
Make sure to scroll up so you know you're at the top of the flight plan each time.
-
Start by deleting the SECOND waypoint in the flight plan.
-
Keep deleting the SECOND waypoint in the flight plan until there are only two left.
-
Delete the SECOND (last) waypoint again. This is when I expect the CTD to happen.
-
If not, delete the final remaining waypoint by the same method.
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If you still don't have a CTD, please try again at least once or twice. When you give up, try inducing the CTD by creating a flight plan and pressing "ERASE FLPN" as you have done before.
Sorry for the aggressive formatting. Just trying to make sure we get the right answers. Thanks again for the help!
This is basically what I did with the route listed above, I did not touch to GPS during that time - disabling or activating it. I deleted the second waypoint and continued to do it 3-4 times then decided I just wanted to delete the whole plan and start over. When I did that the sim CTD on me. I'm flying the plane now and didn't have any issues but I fully booted up the GPS and only deleted one waypoint. Smooth sailing so far.
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I'm glad you're enjoying the airplane while avoiding this until we fix it. It does break my heart that this is lurking out there, and apparently only for some users.
Unfortunately, it's that step number 5 that's crucial to give me more insight into what's going on. The goal is to induce the CTD by manually deleting the last of only two waypoints, after proving that we can delete other intermediate waypoints first.
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If this information helps at all. As mentioned in a previous comment. With my experience modifying the flight plan ex: deleting the last 2 waypoints or just plan deleting the entire flight plan with without GNS as primary nav source selected its an instant CTD. Selecting GNS as the nav source then modifying the flight plan seems to work. Its a work around but a little frustrating if you forget to change nav sources.
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No kidding it's frustrating! I feel terrible that this was lurking unnoticed by scores of beta testers and streamers, only to affect a select number of you.
Thanks for the information. That's still in line with what I'm trying to test for, but I would like to hear definitively that deleting any waypoints individually other than the last two will not cause a CTD.
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B Black Square referenced this topic
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Just a shot in the dark because I don't think it's been mentioned yet, could this possibly be related to having the Navigraph Airac Cycle installed into the sim? I'm not sure how it interacts with the default airac (if it overrides it or if they're entirely separate), but I know the iniBuilds A350 had massive stability issues using the Navigraph Airac to the point where they recommended using the default sim navadata instead.
I'm not affected (yet) but it's the first thing that came to my mind because if I remember correctly from one of the preview Videos Nick is not using Navigraph so maybe this could be an explaination. -
Also lurking and submitted a ticket willing to help squash this bug. I am home the next few days and doing nothing but flying the Starship so let me know what you need.
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No kidding it's frustrating! I feel terrible that this was lurking unnoticed by scores of beta testers and streamers, only to affect a select number of you.
Thanks for the information. That's still in line with what I'm trying to test for, but I would like to hear definitively that deleting any waypoints individually other than the last two will not cause a CTD.