Hmm... RNAV and NAV navigation Bonanza
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Made a night flight with low visibility, and without being an expert, the trip did not go as I expected, and I'm very unsure if the main cause was something wrong with the NAV/RNAV needle, or my operation. It did not behave as I expected.
Are there any known issues with the system, or was it probably just user-error?
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Was only using KNS-81, not a GPS. The cockpit was probably very cold, can the needle freeze? Maybe it was an error I triggered? Everything worked ok, except for the needle not moving as expected, when turning the course knob.
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The KNS-81 is showing some decimals, that I'm not able to change via the knobs. Is it possible to restore/flush the unit somehow?
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The cold isn't going to affect anything. I'm not sure if the KNS will drive a CDI. I admittedly have never used that avionic as a primary, only the GTN. I would think from what tinkering I've done, that you have to enter the desired frequency, course, and mileage, then turn the CDI manually. A lot of older GA avionics won't turn the needle. I have a decent idea of how that unit works, but I did a flight in Florida a few weeks back and had dark spots in VOR coverage. The decommissioning of VORs and NDBs have made these older methods of navigating a bit difficult.
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@Orlaam said in Hmm... RNAV and NAV navigation Bonanza:
The decommissioning of VORs and NDBs have made these older methods of navigating a bit difficult.
Indeed. Living not that far from Russia, I question how smart that is. Jamming GPS is something they are getting good at.
But back in the sim, the problem I have with VOR/radio based RNAV, is that the needle does not parallel-move as I'm expecting, making it impossible to find the VOR or the RNAV-fix. I got it to work on the first flight. Maybe there are some configs/save-state I should restore, if some LVAR's or events has reached insane numbers while calibrating the controllers?
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I made a support ticket on the issue.
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Okay, I just made a flight using the KNS-81. I can see why pilots didn't like it, lol. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable in a real plane with it and no visibility. So to make use of it, I selected the RNAV switch below the DME info gauge. Not NAV, but RNAV. Plugged in the VOR (DRK) to Prescott, AZ and made the path to a couple waypoints on a SID. Then I used the FLG VOR to navigate the ILS approach to RWY 21. I switched to NAV and ILS modes for the final. It would have worked well if not for an iced over window. I couldn't see the runway enough, so it was a crappy landing.
To me, it appears you must use heading mode on the autopilot, dial in the CDI to align with the RNAV calculated waypoint, and essentially fly like you would direct to VORs. That KNS-81 is only allowing you to create virtual waypoints calculated by VOR signals, radials and distances. It only provides a lateral navigation method that eliminates the need to fly VOR to VOR by giving you virtual waypoints like a GPS. Engaging NAV on the autopilot didn't do anything and the CDI was not slaved to anything. You are steering the plane with the autopilot so it stays on course. Maybe the real one is able to steer the plane to each waypoint when it's selected in the box.
I used ForeFlight to monitor for it's accuracy and aid in my plotted points. You would need a paper chart to plot those points in space from each VOR. I'm not sure if the slight inaccuracy is from the sim or my data points. It was close enough imo.
Here I'm navigating the first fix to CALGU on the ILS approach chart. I used the KNS-81 to dial each fix, but manually used HDG and turned the CDI to align the plane. In two minutes I would turn to ZAMAB with those data fields entered in.
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Excellent example, Orlaam. Thanks for sharing. Your information was very accurate, though I would argue that, archaic as its interface may seem, the KNS felt like magic to a lot of pilots before GPS/LORAN/OMEGA, haha.
The code behind the KNS is pretty bulletproof, so nothing should have to be reset. You're correct that the real autopilot can follow the CDI, but this is difficult in MSFS, as the only way for an outside navigation source to interact with the native autopilot is as a "GPS". I recently discovered a way that I might be able to control it without making the KNS essentially a "fake" GPS, but that's a conversation for another day.
There is a tutorial in each of my manuals for the KNS devices, if you have any further questions. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
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Glad to know I figured it out. Not bad for someone without any pilot training, just years of magenta line travels in the sim, lol. I did kinda teach myself NDB and VOR navigation years ago in FS9, but I've not really used it much since. Hopefully the OP can see what's going on and make it work. Me? I'm going back to my safe zone, the GTN rofl
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Hey, it's good to get out of your comfort zone! You clearly have that old-school problem solving ability if you figured it out that fast. Thanks for posting your example. I have a tutorial on YouTube, but I released it with my Caravan, so it's quite old by now. Maybe I'll do another one for the Duke, especially if I can figure out a clever way to steer the autopilot with it.
Thanks for this thread, actually. It made me realized that a bug I encountered with the KLN90B a couple weeks ago could actually be leveraged to control the autopilot directly without any waypoints or legs!
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Hmm, yes, I belive I understand how the KNS-81 should work, as I would do or did the same steps as you did, I belive. On my Bonanza panel, even with a VOR (not using RNAV at all) in range, the needle on the VOR instrument did not parallel move, except some jitter, even when turing the CDI 360 degrees around.
As I mentioned, I did get it to work the first time I used it, and did another test now where it seemed to work. Will try a third attempt on the route where I had an issue.
And now got a better map for this route, it seems like the map-service I used presented a DME facility and VORDME in the same way. I guess that must have been the issue, that I plotted a DME and not a VORDME.
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Btw, here is a screenshot of the decimals I would like to get rid of:
(several of my stored WPT have som RAD and DST decimals, that the knobs are unable to change/remove)
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Those are normal. It's a tenths place. DST, as in distance, would be 18.2 nautical miles from the VOR. 185.5 would be exactly that, a half-degree between 185 and 186. KNS-81 User Manual
I'm confused.
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The decimals are changed by pulling out the adjustment knob on the right of the unit with the tertiary mouse click. For reference, from the "Direct Flight to Airport Tutorial" in the manual:
"Should your desired radial include a decimal component, the inner rotary knob can be pulled and rotated for decimal entry."
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Oh, my bad, thought it was an error that had stayed over from my mapping effort. Probably decimals I sat while reading that tutorial, and forgot about it, as I never mapped that function to the Radio Control Panel. Thanks for the insight.
