146 v1.10 xboxSx performance issues
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Yeah i have to agree, the BAE146 is a very demanding airplane on Xbox series X. But for me it Is okay. I fly most of the time in Default airports and without live traffic on. On these setting i experience some fps loss when i Look in the Cockpit.
When i have live traffic on i have some fps loss during taxi, Special on those big international airports.You can See that the BAE doesnt Run smooth.
To hide the cabin you need to select and than restart your flight -
We have been investigating this today on the various platforms, and we have confirmed that the micro stutter only occurs on Xbox. From a development point of view, the PC and Xbox versions of the 146 are identical, and we aren’t doing anything unique with the Xbox version, so we suspect it must be related to something on the Xbox platform post-SU13.
We will continue to investigate this though and we will release an update if there’s anything we can do to improve this on our side.
Mark - Just Flight
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Thanks a lot for considering the issue as relevant.👍🏻 I really enjoied the aircraft before those lags but right now the flight experience is much less enjoyable on xbox. I really hope for a solution.🤞
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I am having the same issue. I am on xbox series s.
None of the other add on planes, and the other JF products i own have this issue. Only the 146 does. I hope this is fixed soon
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@Moonflower_414
If you want to boost your Experience and want to be on Xbox get yourself a Xbox series X. Its on sale now and is huge difference to the Xbox series S -
This post is deleted!
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Love this plane so much, such a piece of art, detailed, unique, challenging etc. etc.
So I did extensive performance tests since the very release of beta SU 15.
All tests done after sim logouts and full restart of xbox.Resolution 3840x2160/60p TV
Testing ground: KPDX paid; gate C11; RWY 28L
Parameters: cold and dark - taxi - takeoff - AP cruising 9000AData: PG ON + enhanced photogrammetry add-on
Live weather, live traffic, multiplayer: all OFF
Rolling cache: OFF; deleteAddons: myreplacement trucks; lvfr static aircraft
Traffic: AI Offline 50%
Airport vehicle density 90%
Ground aircraft density 0%
Worker density 80%
Road vehicles 80%
Fauna density 100%Test benchmark: PMDG 737-600
RESULTS
- BAE 146
No changes compared to SU14 which is totally devastating. Now in details:
Cockpit static: BAE146 persistently drops frames during "head camera" rotation inside, in all directions. Gets stuck mostly on captain's side window distally, front window mid portion and officers window distal bit.
Outside static: occasional stutters when 360 deg. rotation above aircraft observing scenery.
Taxi: stutters looking at the window, occasional, but consistent during taxi. If moving camera left-right when in motion: constant stutters, becomes substantially worse.
Takeoff: massive, consistent stutters during acceleration when moving camera left/right against the scenery.
In flight outside: occasional, noticeably rare stutters, when camera rotation 360 deg.
-737.600
Incredibly fluid experience. No stutters anywhere. Just top notch. Feels like another universe in comparison with BAE. Apron, inside/ outside, moving, slow/fast avionics on/off, you name it - all smooth.
The worst part in 146 was runway. That was just a total mess: insane framedrop lava, whereas PMDG had absolute 0, and yes, I mean ZERO stutters on acceleration with simultaneous left/right camera movement.RESUME
Clearly and unquestionably JustFlight BAE146 needs an update. It is not MSFS /xbox problem indeed. Or scenery /addons conflicts incompatibility, overload etc. PMDG 737-600 is a proof. It is incredibly well optimized. Again, another level experience.
I don't wanna speculate , however, may be JustFlight's problem is EFB, maybe dashboard avionics, maybe the programming /modelling itself but that's just the way it is. No changes inside the sim/addons etc. make it it better. And I was not comparing it against Kodiak for example. 737 is 6Gb and a very complex model indeed.I REALLY hope that JustFlight team will conduct an extensive investigation and issues an updated version of our favorite aircraft soon and eventually make the product work as it is supposed to.
There is a proof that it is possible. - BAE 146
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Just in the last couple of days, we believe we have tracked down the cause of the stuttering issue in the 146 on Xbox, and we are currently examining a few different solutions. We are aiming to get a fix out for this with the next update to the 146 Professional.
With regards to the other performance comments, I'll be very honest and say it will be unlikely for us to improve the performance significantly more than it already is in the 146 due to several factors that I'll touch on below, however, we do always try to make small performance improvements where-ever we can when updating our products.
Comparing aircraft against aircraft is also a dangerous hole to fall into (and a hole we often find ourselves falling into as well), but there are so many factors between aircraft that these types of comparison don't necessarily count for much.
For example, when comparing an older, steam gauge aircraft type like the 146 with a more modern, glass cockpit aircraft like the 737, you'll see that the amount of objects in the steam gauge cockpit is significantly more than the glass cockpit. Each of these objects has to be animated and has code associated with that animation, as well as additional systems code for the systems it is related to. For instance, on the 146s HSI, there are animations for the heading bug, compass card, localiser and glideslope deviation bars, DME drums, failure flags, etc. The code for each of these objects consumes a little bit of performance, and when you add that up to the entire steam gauge cockpit, it can soon add up. Compare that to a modern glass cockpit airliner, and you don't have anywhere near the amount of animations. This also means that in a steam gauge airliner, there are more objects that have to be loaded in as you look around the cockpit.
On top of that, textures are probably the single biggest performance hit, especially with regard to VRAM. We could create an aircraft with a very basic texture set, that has little to no wear and tear and provides a small performance improvement, but we don't want to do that. We want our aircraft to feel used and for them to look exactly like the reference aircraft that we are basing the simulation on. One quick and easy solution we can do to improve performance and reduce VRAM usage on Xbox is to decrease the texture resolution. The problem with this is MSFS on Xbox automatically downscales the already downscaled textures that we upload to the marketplace, so if we were to downscale them even more, there would be situations where text on panels that do not use text decals will become unreadable due to the low resolution, not to mention the lower resolution of the panels (as an example of this, have a look at the screws and wear and tear on the cockpit panels in the default A310 in MSFS on Xbox and compare it to the PC version. The A310 uses text decals so the text is still readable as they aren't affected by the texture resolution, but the actual panel textures are very low resolution on Xbox).
There are various other factors that can play into this too from aircraft to aircraft, such as the coding language used, code optimisation, lighting, etc, as well as external factors such as scenery, ground clutter and even the simulator's rolling cache. From our perspective though, there is not much performance to be gained in the 146 Professional without us investing a significant amount of time either retexturing the entire aircraft, recoding the entire aircraft, or both, neither of which is feasible and likely won't bring any meaningful performance improvements.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope that gives a bit of an insight into the process and gives some answers as to why things may seem the way they are. It's always a struggle to balance performance and quality, especially when we have to cater for users who own $4000+ monster PCs all the way down to users who own an Xbox Series S, but I personally think we have reached a very good balance with our 146 Professional.
Mark - Just Flight
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Dear Mark, thanks for a quick response and a very detailed explanation.
Great news that you were able to discover possible factors affecting 146's performance.
I am not a coder however as a potential solution for us could be a "lite version" - I believe that's what FSR500 did with their latest update after all infamous issues with black avionics.
So possibly (?) passengers part, dashboard details lower res, efb's elements simplification, less visible textures reduction, efb removal and transfer options to fms , some coding optimization etc.
I am convinced that if you are able to get the "model" (let's put it this way) lighter by 10-12% that will have a massive impact in overall experience.
Apologies for my lame speculations on the topic, it's just I love the plane so much that I can certainly live with a bit blurry "inflate with nitrogen" sticker resulting in less frequent frame drops or occasional somewhere in a complex environment :)
thanks a ton again, looking forward for an upcoming update
M -
The processes you describe are something we already go through to some extent when preparing a product for a release on Xbox, however, rather than making these decisions hard-coded, we leave some of them up to the player. For example, on the EFB we have included options to disable the passenger cabin, and control the refresh rate of the gauges. Adjusting both of these options to improve the performance would likely provide as much of an improvement to performance as we would be able to achieve by spending time on making a dedicated "lite" version.
For our larger, more complex Xbox products like the 146 and Vulcan, the textures used are already downscaled as far as we are comfortable with. For the Vulcan, we use 8K textures on PC and 4K textures on Xbox. I don't recall the exact resolutions for the 146 off the top of my head, but I believe it is a similar drop in resolution. Any further significant reduction to texture resolution would render text unreadable and the panel textures would be below our quality standards, effectively requiring a completely new texture set to be created (which is in the time scale of months per aircraft).
If we take your example and start going down the road of "Lite" products for Xbox, it adds a whole lot of complications to the mix. From a business point of view, the time it would take to create a "Lite" version of each of our products would be very cost and time-prohibitive and would take our development teams off any other projects they are currently working on, thus significantly delaying all other products. Having two separate versions of a product for PC and Xbox can also quickly turn into a logistical headache for us, as our workload would be instantly doubled every time we wanted to update a product, as this would mean we would have to update the PC and Xbox products individually, and this would likely have the additional side effect of us providing fewer updates to the products in order to prevent further delays to other products. Above all else, morally, we wouldn't be comfortable selling a lower-quality product on Xbox compared to the PC version. We always want our products to be the highest quality possible for all of our customers.
I personally don't have any experience with the FSR500, but as I touched on in my previous reply, it's a dangerous game comparing the performance of a 100-seat, steam gauge airliner, versus a small 10-seat, glass cockpit GA aircraft. They are completely different aircraft types, developed by completely different development teams, so what works for one product doesn't necessarily translate to the other product.
I appreciate this may all sound a bit doom and gloom, but hopefully, it comes across as an honest response to your post. For now, other than the stuttering issue reported previously in this thread (which we aim to get fixed in the next update), we haven't really seen any other comments about the performance of our aircraft on Xbox. We will of course continue to evaluate the performance with every update and make any possible improvements, but any significant changes to the model and textures likely won't occur as the results may not be any better than what is already possible using the controls on the EFB.
All of this should hopefully become a bit of a moot point in the future as we start to build aircraft from scratch with Xbox compatibility in mind from day one.
Mark - Just Flight
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Mark, thanks for the update on the 146. The only minor problem I have had with it were the micro stutters. I absolutely love the 146 and the Vulcan and this minor problem has not stopped me from enjoying the 146. Obviously, if the micro stutters could be resolved it will make a great product even better.
SU15 has effected mostly all my aircraft in some way. The dreaded black screens on most and on the 146 no readouts on the nav panel etc. I decided to roll back to SU14 for the time being. -
Im using the bae146 on Xbox series X too and had also those stutters that you are experience but just Flight give you many Option to improve Performance by using efb and so on
What i did to improve Performance;
- hide both yokes
- Put refresh rate from gauges to very low
- I use standard VSI
- If you use any ground enchanment addon ( like from zinertek) delete it
- Dont use live traffic! If you want you can use ki Traffic but not live!!
After this adjustment your frames should be stable and smooth
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Tsolis,
Thanks for the info. I've changed the settings and there is an improvement, however, despite doing all of this plus hiding the EFB and having no traffic I still get the stutter usually every 3-4 seconds. This can be seen on both inside and outside views of the aircraft.
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The stutter is code related so it won't be fixable through the options on the EFB. We are aiming to have that fixed in the upcoming update.
The other recommendations from Tsolis should help with general performance in the simulator though, including reducing the risk of the 'black screen' issue.
Mark - Just Flight
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Hopefully V2 arrives on xbox next week.
