Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections
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In my opinion, there is obviously no need for an exaggerated glass effect on the instruments, but rather a visible, well-balanced one that does not distract users. It should be subtle yet present, something that works well for all of us and enhances the overall visual experience.
For me, alongside flight dynamics and overall model fidelity, the visual presentation is extremely important—especially the cockpit details. At the moment, due to the apparent limitation of the glass effect on the instruments by Asobo Studio, the instruments unfortunately appear quite flat and somewhat underwhelming without a proper sense of glass.
I truly hope that it will be possible to achieve a glass effect that satisfies the expectations of the community.
@batkizoltan said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
In my opinion, there is obviously no need for an exaggerated glass effect on the instruments, but rather a visible, well-balanced one that does not distract users. It should be subtle yet present, something that works well for all of us and enhances the overall visual experience.
For me, alongside flight dynamics and overall model fidelity, the visual presentation is extremely important—especially the cockpit details. At the moment, due to the apparent limitation of the glass effect on the instruments by Asobo Studio, the instruments unfortunately appear quite flat and somewhat underwhelming without a proper sense of glass.
I truly hope that it will be possible to achieve a glass effect that satisfies the expectations of the community.
I completely agree with you. The instruments look like their glass "caps" have been removed. And from certain angles, the windows look like holes.
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@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
There is nothing wrong with his attitude. He expressed his opinion politely - and raised valid points. The glass effect is substandard; he's not the only one who noticed it. What exactly is your problem with his attitude? Please elaborate.
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@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
There is nothing wrong with his attitude. He expressed his opinion politely - and raised valid points. The glass effect is substandard; he's not the only one who noticed it. What exactly is your problem with his attitude? Please elaborate.
@kityatyi said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
There is nothing wrong with his attitude. He expressed his opinion politely - and raised valid points. The glass effect is substandard; he's not the only one who noticed it. What exactly is your problem with his attitude? Please elaborate.
"This is a critical issue that should not be delayed — it requires immediate attention from the developer, and a proper solution needs to be implemented. In its current state, this cannot remain as it is."
This is not a critical issue (the aircraft and its features work as intended) and he is not the one setting the tasks for the dev.
Adding words of respect does not magically change a childish demand into a polite question. -
@Black-Square As I’ve mentioned several times before, this is a truly outstanding aircraft that the flight simulation community has been eagerly waiting for, and it is genuinely a premium-quality model.
The update released today is also excellent and further enhances both the flight experience and the aircraft itself. The panel looks fantastic, and the new panel textures are beautifully done.
However, I must strongly emphasize the lack of glass effect, reflections, and light interaction on the instruments. This is a critical issue that should not be delayed — it requires immediate attention from the developer, and a proper solution needs to be implemented.
In its current state, this cannot remain as it is. It cannot be ignored, and it is not realistic to wait for Asobo to address it at some undefined point in the distant future — in practice, that means never.
In my personal opinion, the highly respected developer of the Caravan is absolutely capable of finding a solution to introduce proper reflective and glass effects on the instruments.
I strongly urge that this be treated as a top priority and addressed in the next update — or, if possible, through a dedicated hotfix.
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@Black-Square I would kindly like to ask the developer to share and elaborate on their opinion and perspective regarding the glass effect on the instruments.
I have also recorded video footage from the simulator to demonstrate what I am referring to. Based on this, I would respectfully like to ask whether you see any realistic possibility or prospect of developing and implementing a custom glass effect in the future, or if the situation is expected to remain unchanged until Asobo addresses the current limitations related to the instrument glass effect.
This is important for us, as it helps set expectations for those of us who would like to see a more pronounced and visually convincing glass effect.
At the same time, I would like to sincerely thank you for your fast bug fixes and for the conscientious, precise, and premium-quality work you have been delivering.
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@Black-Square I would kindly like to ask the developer to share and elaborate on their opinion and perspective regarding the glass effect on the instruments.
I have also recorded video footage from the simulator to demonstrate what I am referring to. Based on this, I would respectfully like to ask whether you see any realistic possibility or prospect of developing and implementing a custom glass effect in the future, or if the situation is expected to remain unchanged until Asobo addresses the current limitations related to the instrument glass effect.
This is important for us, as it helps set expectations for those of us who would like to see a more pronounced and visually convincing glass effect.
At the same time, I would like to sincerely thank you for your fast bug fixes and for the conscientious, precise, and premium-quality work you have been delivering.
@batkizoltan Unfortunately, I only have the same answer for you that I have given every time this has come up. There was some undocumented change to the glass shader in MSFS 2024, which I needed to address in my initial compatibility updates for MSFS 2024. Some of you might recall what the glass looked like when you attempted to port my MSFS 2020 aircraft to 2024 yourselves. This seems to have had the side effect of making the glass reflections slightly weaker in MSFS 2024.
I have not spent extensive time searching for a solution, because there has been ongoing discussion about it on the developer forums. Unlike what you suggested in a previous post, this might not be as simple as me "implementing" a solution. The shaders in MSFS are somewhat of a black box, with only the SDK documentation to guide us, often with outdated or imprecise language. The shader input parameters are generated by the exporters we use from our 3D modeling software. Carenado uses 3dsMax, and I use Blender, which have completely different exporters, and different supported features.
Perhaps there is an easy solution, but this will likely start with me comparing output from the exporters to code a solution myself. MSFS 2024's Virtual File System and DRM makes this more of a hassle than it used to be, but it should still be possible. Obviously, I would much rather Asobo identify what changed and fix it, especially since any fix I publish might yield even worse results with no notice after a sim update or beta. I try not to make any changes like this that would fundamentally break an aircraft at an unforeseeable time, since it would require an update from me, and I do occasionally travel to record sounds for these aircraft.
I appreciate the praise for my aircraft, and I hope you can still enjoy them with diminished glass reflections. I improved the glareshield material on your request, and found an undocumented feature to improve the exterior lighting on your requested. I'm sorry that some issues are more complicated than others, but I will do my best to look into this when time permits and find you a solution.
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@batkizoltan I've spent the last few hours on this, and have found how to reintroduce the skybox reflection into the glass shader (that's what was missing before, as the side reflections noted above are either screen-space or ray-traced reflections).
Unfortunately, I'm personally not a huge fan of the glass shader in MSFS 2024, as it seems to give the underlying instruments a slightly washed-out appearance. This is something I have noticed to varying degrees in aircraft back to FS2004, and it's one of the visuals I feel strongest about in flight simulator. I identified this as something I would avoid in my own aircraft from the beginning, since it does not represent the anti-reflection coated glass in any aircraft I've ever flown, in which the instruments are always high contrast and readable (except for condensation in pitot-static instruments).
Note: I can adjust the smudges and such later, this was just to demonstrate the desaturating effect of the new glass shader.
I definitely see why some might not like this shader, since the new skybox texture for light aircraft in MSFS 2024 (of which there are several. Note that "Closed" and "Helicopter" are swapped in the documentation.) seem to completely overwhelm some instruments from common viewing angles. This is because the skybox is based on the default C172, with rear windows, as opposed to the skybox in MSFS 2020, which was a real spherical photograph from the cockpit of some kind of light sport aircraft, if memory serves.
However... I also strongly believe that the customer is always right, so I will have to rely on the opinions I can gather from the community: Stronger skybox reflections, but desaturated instruments like the default aircraft, or less skybox and higher contrast instruments. Just know that I will always do my best to make everyone as happy as I possibly can with their virtual flying experience.
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@batkizoltan I've spent the last few hours on this, and have found how to reintroduce the skybox reflection into the glass shader (that's what was missing before, as the side reflections noted above are either screen-space or ray-traced reflections).
Unfortunately, I'm personally not a huge fan of the glass shader in MSFS 2024, as it seems to give the underlying instruments a slightly washed-out appearance. This is something I have noticed to varying degrees in aircraft back to FS2004, and it's one of the visuals I feel strongest about in flight simulator. I identified this as something I would avoid in my own aircraft from the beginning, since it does not represent the anti-reflection coated glass in any aircraft I've ever flown, in which the instruments are always high contrast and readable (except for condensation in pitot-static instruments).
Note: I can adjust the smudges and such later, this was just to demonstrate the desaturating effect of the new glass shader.
I definitely see why some might not like this shader, since the new skybox texture for light aircraft in MSFS 2024 (of which there are several. Note that "Closed" and "Helicopter" are swapped in the documentation.) seem to completely overwhelm some instruments from common viewing angles. This is because the skybox is based on the default C172, with rear windows, as opposed to the skybox in MSFS 2020, which was a real spherical photograph from the cockpit of some kind of light sport aircraft, if memory serves.
However... I also strongly believe that the customer is always right, so I will have to rely on the opinions I can gather from the community: Stronger skybox reflections, but desaturated instruments like the default aircraft, or less skybox and higher contrast instruments. Just know that I will always do my best to make everyone as happy as I possibly can with their virtual flying experience.
@Black-Square said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
or less skybox and higher contrast instruments.
If I had to chose this would be my prefered option. Usability over looks. I do not see any higher realisum in having an artificial reflection I cannot influence.
Like I said before, irl in case you cannot read the instrument due to reflection you could always use your hands to cast some schadow on the dashboard. We do not have this option in the Sim, therefor I prefer to be able to read my instruments.Maybe it is also related that I am getting older and need googles already to read the screen.
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@batkizoltan I've spent the last few hours on this, and have found how to reintroduce the skybox reflection into the glass shader (that's what was missing before, as the side reflections noted above are either screen-space or ray-traced reflections).
Unfortunately, I'm personally not a huge fan of the glass shader in MSFS 2024, as it seems to give the underlying instruments a slightly washed-out appearance. This is something I have noticed to varying degrees in aircraft back to FS2004, and it's one of the visuals I feel strongest about in flight simulator. I identified this as something I would avoid in my own aircraft from the beginning, since it does not represent the anti-reflection coated glass in any aircraft I've ever flown, in which the instruments are always high contrast and readable (except for condensation in pitot-static instruments).
Note: I can adjust the smudges and such later, this was just to demonstrate the desaturating effect of the new glass shader.
I definitely see why some might not like this shader, since the new skybox texture for light aircraft in MSFS 2024 (of which there are several. Note that "Closed" and "Helicopter" are swapped in the documentation.) seem to completely overwhelm some instruments from common viewing angles. This is because the skybox is based on the default C172, with rear windows, as opposed to the skybox in MSFS 2020, which was a real spherical photograph from the cockpit of some kind of light sport aircraft, if memory serves.
However... I also strongly believe that the customer is always right, so I will have to rely on the opinions I can gather from the community: Stronger skybox reflections, but desaturated instruments like the default aircraft, or less skybox and higher contrast instruments. Just know that I will always do my best to make everyone as happy as I possibly can with their virtual flying experience.
@Black-Square Thank you very much for your comprehensive, detailed, and professionally thorough developer response. I especially appreciate that you took the time to review the video I created, as well as to investigate the source of the issue I raised and its possible solutions. I truly value the significant effort and the considerable amount of time you dedicated to this.
Based on the image you provided, the glass effect visible on the instruments looks very good and quite impressive. Would it be possible for only a pronounced glass effect to be applied to the instruments, without any kind of spots or other factors on the glass that would reduce the readability of the gauges?
My question would be whether it would be possible to add this glass reflection as an optional feature to the Caravan Professional aircraft’s tablet functionality. This would be the ideal solution, as those who prefer a more visually rich glass effect on the instruments could enable it, while those who prefer the current, reflection-free appearance could keep it as it is. This way, both user groups could be accommodated, provided that such an implementation is feasible.
If, from a development standpoint, it is not possible to add this feature as an optional setting to the tablet, would it be possible for you to share the modified glass effect file or format you created? For example, you could send it to me directly or upload it to an MSFS community platform so that those who would like to use it can access it.
Personally, I would be very happy to have this more pronounced glass effect, as visual fidelity has always been particularly important to me.
Finally, I would like to thank you once again for the time and effort you have invested in addressing the issue I raised, and—based on what I have seen on the forum—also for the patience you show in listening to each and every user in order to accommodate the wide variety of requests that arise. -
Less skybox / it should have the same treatment as the other 2024 BKSQ aircraft...
Reflections are all well and dandy and do add immersion (albeit inaccurate) until I can't shade it with my hand. In VR that's instantly immersion breaking.
A little bit of grime around the edges of the glass where it would naturally gather and be hard to clean IRL is nice but the lack of this does not bother me. Fingerprints that are always in the same place and pasted across different instruments are a little silly to me.
(As an aside: the A6M5 Zero from BBS has nice reflections, it works really well because the glass is actually concave so the reflective is needed to convey the geometry and looks rather pretty and jewel like. Also, being concave means the the reflection is far less likely to impair instrument visibility - also back in the day they didn't have anti-reflective coating...).
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Please do not change anything related to the current glass effects in your product releases.
Especially when there is no increase in visual fidelity when doing so, just adding unrealistic jank.
@jmarkows I do think the reflectivity needs to be increased, but we're talking a mild increase. Right now having the sunlight hit directly on the glass has almost no impact, which isn't realistic. Having difficulties reading the instruments in certain lighting conditions IS realistic.
I don't think it should take priority over anything else.
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@jmarkows I do think the reflectivity needs to be increased, but we're talking a mild increase. Right now having the sunlight hit directly on the glass has almost no impact, which isn't realistic. Having difficulties reading the instruments in certain lighting conditions IS realistic.
I don't think it should take priority over anything else.
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I’d take usability over perceived realism every time.
I still remember how it was before the Starship got its 2024 update in the marketplace. The 2020 version in MSFS2024 made it practically impossible to fly at daytime. No, thanks.
@ploodovic The glass effect shown in the attached image is catastrophic. In fact, I wouldn’t even call this a glass effect anymore — it looks more like a dirty, blotchy, and smeared surface. Obviously, no one wants this kind of glass effect.
Personally, as the person who started this forum thread, all I want is a well-defined, visually noticeable, and properly pronounced glass effect on the instruments—one that is completely free of any spots or scratches, enhances the overall look of the cockpit and instruments, and makes them appear more realistic.
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@kityatyi said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
There is nothing wrong with his attitude. He expressed his opinion politely - and raised valid points. The glass effect is substandard; he's not the only one who noticed it. What exactly is your problem with his attitude? Please elaborate.
"This is a critical issue that should not be delayed — it requires immediate attention from the developer, and a proper solution needs to be implemented. In its current state, this cannot remain as it is."
This is not a critical issue (the aircraft and its features work as intended) and he is not the one setting the tasks for the dev.
Adding words of respect does not magically change a childish demand into a polite question.@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@kityatyi said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
There is nothing wrong with his attitude. He expressed his opinion politely - and raised valid points. The glass effect is substandard; he's not the only one who noticed it. What exactly is your problem with his attitude? Please elaborate.
"This is a critical issue that should not be delayed — it requires immediate attention from the developer, and a proper solution needs to be implemented. In its current state, this cannot remain as it is."
This is not a critical issue (the aircraft and its features work as intended) and he is not the one setting the tasks for the dev.
Adding words of respect does not magically change a childish demand into a polite question.What if the intention was not to please the audience, but rather to get a point across clearly and concisely?
Maybe "this" is not a critical issue for you, but please do not speak on my behalf, and also it certainly is a critical issue for him, and may well be for others. Besides, the purpose of the forum is to communicate - among other things - concerns.
Worrying about "setting tasks for the developer" makes no sense. It is safe to assume the developer can respond if he deems it necessary, but have no sleepless nights; it is highly unlikely any of us have the "supernatural power" to influence Nick's priorities. It is the developer alone who sets their own tasks, regardless of a forum post...
And finally, he never insulted anyone, but you did, calling it a "childish" demand just because you don't care about what he does care about. A mirror to look into would come in handy, before you judge others, dude.
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@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@kityatyi said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@Rhinozherous said in Request for Improvement Aimed at Strengthening the Glass Effect on Instruments and the Reflection of the Glass Effect’s Reflections:
@batkizoltan In my opinion, your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer...
There is nothing wrong with his attitude. He expressed his opinion politely - and raised valid points. The glass effect is substandard; he's not the only one who noticed it. What exactly is your problem with his attitude? Please elaborate.
"This is a critical issue that should not be delayed — it requires immediate attention from the developer, and a proper solution needs to be implemented. In its current state, this cannot remain as it is."
This is not a critical issue (the aircraft and its features work as intended) and he is not the one setting the tasks for the dev.
Adding words of respect does not magically change a childish demand into a polite question.What if the intention was not to please the audience, but rather to get a point across clearly and concisely?
Maybe "this" is not a critical issue for you, but please do not speak on my behalf, and also it certainly is a critical issue for him, and may well be for others. Besides, the purpose of the forum is to communicate - among other things - concerns.
Worrying about "setting tasks for the developer" makes no sense. It is safe to assume the developer can respond if he deems it necessary, but have no sleepless nights; it is highly unlikely any of us have the "supernatural power" to influence Nick's priorities. It is the developer alone who sets their own tasks, regardless of a forum post...
And finally, he never insulted anyone, but you did, calling it a "childish" demand just because you don't care about what he does care about. A mirror to look into would come in handy, before you judge others, dude.
@kityatyi
I think that this is actually insulting:
"I’ll say it again, now for the umpteenth time, for those with weaker comprehension: do not interfere!"Talking about mirrors:
For ME it is a critical issue when people open up like this in the forums and I also wanted this point to get across clearly and concisely. This may not concern YOU, but it was concerning me, and also other people here in the forum. -
How about not trying to move the goalpost as you go along? That quote is only a follow-up. The actual insult started here: "Your attitude needs an urgent fix by the developer". Until you came playing the self-elected moral police, it was a legitimate, clear-cut personal opinion to which he had every right, no offence, no insults, straight to the point.
Also, let's not forget, we are not talking about donationware; he purchased something, not received as a gift. What one expects may differ from what others do for their money; who are you to judge?
And finally - before we lose sight of this fact -, he is not a native speaker of English. Nevertheless, those offended by that first post (I find it honest, passionate, to the point and respectful) should seriously address their inner weakness and insecurity before joining forums.
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