Weird behaviou at rolling... Just before takeoff.
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@copper There have been various issues with the rudder through development, testing and with all versions released so far. Each attempt to improve things seems to throw up or increase another problem area.
Let me be clear, I am not happy with it.
I do not rate the core flight model at all - I think it started with good intent but the implimentation is poor. Within that, I think that the yaw axis is by far the weakest of the primary axes. The problem is, the same issues occur in the default aircraft, and we seem currently unable to just 'make it all work', we can fix some but not all. That is down to a poorly implimented core sim flight model which is brand new but has no worthwhile documentation .
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@Delta558 said in Weird behaviou at rolling... Just before takeoff.:
Let me be clear, I am not happy with it.
Fair point, neither am I and I understand that tweaking one thing will break something else.
Just wanted to say that the issue discussed here definitely changed to the worse for me in the last few updates (probably with 0.5.0).
If that's the state that you think is the best compromise for now in terms of other effects, I can't contradict since I don't have all the insight :) But at least it's good to know that these issues are seen by the devs. -
@copper I am in complete agreement with you that something has changed. I do not understand why it is not also obvious to the developers. While it may not happen on every takeoff, it does happen most of the time in fair weather with very light winds reported. I would go back to 0.3 to check but I really don't want to mess things up in doing so. It seems that I am spending most of my flying time just keeping up with updates and chasing bugs.
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I struggled with same problem but since upgrade 5.0 takeoff with cross wind does work very well. I also fly this plane in elite simulator. The behavior of the JF plane is close to elite counterpart . At a certain moment I was so desperate that I reinstalled windows 10 and fs2020 from scratch without succes; but update 5 made me happy again. Things went wrong after WU 4.
The JF guy’s does a great job, thank you anyway. -
This issue wasn't on the previus versions of arrow...
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same problem for me, also with no wind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKGjLDxfIkI&t=5s&ab_channel=PS4
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For me the effect kicks in at 70kt IAS and is usually to the left. No wind, stable takeoff roll with basically no rudder input, but suddenly at 70kt there is a hefty effect to the left.
Not an issue of weight&balance either (added copilot weight).
Do not see this behavior with any other aircraft so far. -
@SandyDee Exactly. I have now gone back and compared the no wind takeoff behavior in the present version with that of version 0.3. I found the takeoff ground roll is actually smoother in the present version and there is no sudden yaw if you rotate at 65 knots. However if rotation is delayed until reaching 70 knots then there is an abrupt yaw to the left that does not happen in version 0.3. In the earlier version the nose does tend to wonder to the left and to the right throughout the ground roll. In the present version right rudder is realistically required to keep on center but there is no tendency to wonder. I agree that touch and goes are a pleasure so what is this strange abrupt yaw on initial takeoff when lifting off above 65 knots???
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@sdvpilot You are right, the behavior is not realistic. I my opinion JF had reduced the rudder steering at higher ground speeds, to make “normal” takeoff smoother, but they are not able to handle the strange weathervaning effect of the sim. I prior Versions I always tried to trim Nose-Up, in the actual Version there is no need for. But I guess in a case of Takeoff abort you will be lost.
I know, other MOD creators are also fighting with this Sim effect. GotGravel with his small Bushplane wrote he found a way in the last version, but I never tested it out. -
@lennsch Thank you for your suggestion. I found that at max fuel and weight the tendency to yaw to the left on takeoff does not occur unless you hold the nose down until reaching speeds well above 70 knots. However very little right rudder is required to remain on center which is also not realistic. I'm guessing that Just Flight developers have tweaked settings as much as possible given the present limitations of the sim. Pitch stability in a climb also seems better at gross weight making it easier to trim for a constant rate of climb but there is still room for improvement. Never the less I do think that this is by far the best GA single engine prop aircraft available for MSFS and I really do enjoy flying it.
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Unlike many small GA aircraft, such as the Cessna C152 and C172, the Piper PA28 does not have springs on the nosewheel steering. The nosewheel is directly connected to the rudder pedals, and any rudder deflection you apply will also turn the nosewheel in that direction. During the takeoff roll some right rudder is needed to counteract the normal engine induced left yaw, but the nosewheel needs to remain as straight as possible to maintain the steering track on the runway centerline... This can make the rudder and nosewheel work against each other, especially at the higher ground speeds just before rotation. To minimize this cross controlling, and improve the centerline tracking during takeoff, try this technique used by the old tail dragger fighter pilots...
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Turn on Cockpit Tool Tips in MSFS so you can see the exact amount of rudder and elevator trim being set.
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Before beginning the takeoff roll set the Rudder Trim to 3.0 degrees right, and the Elevator Trim to about 2.0 degrees Up (depending on your loading). This will apply the correct amount of right rudder to counter the engine induced yaw during takeoff and climb out, without also turning the nosewheel.
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After leveling off at cruise altitude, return the Rudder Trim to 0.0 to eliminate any side slip and allow maximum cruise speed to be achieved.
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That could not be the reason, because at higher taxi speeds the nose wheel have much less impact and you have to be really slow to effectively turn the plane hard. Why should it suddenly gain so much traction after 70 knots? As Delta mentioned, seems to be a problem with sim at the moment and the PA has been impacted hard by it.
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