The Black Square fleet-wide ILS tracking issue continues
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Never used anything like these and still have the issue, 100% of the time.
I am not going to buy another BS aircraft until this is addressed. Very frustrating and affects all MSFS 2024 BS aircraft.
@kityatyi Oh, I'm surprised to see that I never responded to this. I've seen sporadic reports of ILS capture issues since the release of MSFS 2020. The difference you're finding between the avionics is to be expected, as some (WT GNS 530) employ their own completely custom autopilot, while the others use the native autopilot. I have seen the occasional missed glideslope since MSFS 2020, but I have found that engaging approach mode at the point of glideslope intercept has a 100% success rate.
@SteveKane That was my first thought too, since it's very clear that something became bugged in the native autopilot at some point with MSFS 2024. As others have demonstrated, this is a local phenomenon caused by 3rd party software, so the solution will have to come from Asobo.
As for this localizer intercept issue, I have never seen it myself, but I don't doubt that it could be another bug introduced into the native autopilot. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing I could change as a developer that would affect localizer capture, other than maybe the PID constants, which seem to work well in all my aircraft for all other autopilot modes. The outlier here would be the KLN-90B (which uses the native autopilot) working in another aircraft, which has not implemented its own overriding autopilot (which may be the case in the Comanche and Aerostar). If you could provide an example of that, or even just a video of what you're seeing on your end, that might be helpful for troubleshooting.
@RPGamerous Just one more quick clarification: The approach mode on the KNS only affects the CDI scaling, so it will have no effect on autopilot operation.
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Thank you for your reply, Nick.
I never witnessed THIS kind of missed intercept in MSFS 2020 whatsoever (BlackSquare and other aircraft included). But it is very consistent in 2024.
The localizer capture issue - and I can only speak for myself - only occurs with BlackSquare aircraft and only when I am using either the KLN90B or the RNAV system. These successfully track the GPS or VOR, but then fail to capture the ILS. For me, this is not an occasional experience. This happens 100% of the time, regardless of the BlackSquare aircraft type. But when I am using the GNS system or the PMS GTN option, everything is fine, the ILS is nicely captured.
Interestingly, however, the KLN90 works without a single missed intercept in my A2A aircraft. In other words, I only experience the missed intercept in my BlackSquare fleet.
So, my conclusion - however premature it may be - is that there is something, somewhere that causes BOTH your very own RNAV system as well as the 3rd party KLN90, to somehow cause the localizer and glideslope not to capture. If I am in HDG mode to intercept the localizer, the aircraft would just continue on the heading, letting the needle travel across the instrument, etc.
Again, I can successfully use the RNAV computer, use pseudo VORs, all works as a charm, but when it comes to the ILS approach, the aircraft simply "ignores" it and continues flying straight, instead of capturing the needle. And this happens 100% of the time, not just once in a while.
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Thank you for your reply, Nick.
I never witnessed THIS kind of missed intercept in MSFS 2020 whatsoever (BlackSquare and other aircraft included). But it is very consistent in 2024.
The localizer capture issue - and I can only speak for myself - only occurs with BlackSquare aircraft and only when I am using either the KLN90B or the RNAV system. These successfully track the GPS or VOR, but then fail to capture the ILS. For me, this is not an occasional experience. This happens 100% of the time, regardless of the BlackSquare aircraft type. But when I am using the GNS system or the PMS GTN option, everything is fine, the ILS is nicely captured.
Interestingly, however, the KLN90 works without a single missed intercept in my A2A aircraft. In other words, I only experience the missed intercept in my BlackSquare fleet.
So, my conclusion - however premature it may be - is that there is something, somewhere that causes BOTH your very own RNAV system as well as the 3rd party KLN90, to somehow cause the localizer and glideslope not to capture. If I am in HDG mode to intercept the localizer, the aircraft would just continue on the heading, letting the needle travel across the instrument, etc.
Again, I can successfully use the RNAV computer, use pseudo VORs, all works as a charm, but when it comes to the ILS approach, the aircraft simply "ignores" it and continues flying straight, instead of capturing the needle. And this happens 100% of the time, not just once in a while.
@kityatyi What I was trying to explain above is that the PMS50 GTN, and WT GNS both have their own autopilot, which manages localizer intercept internally. My KNS, the KLN, and any avionics configuration with no navigation computer at all, all use the native autopilot. In fact, I do exactly nothing with regards to ILS capture in those scenarios. It's 100% at the mercy of the simulator's native autopilot. Don't quote me with regards to other developers' aircraft, but I believe the Comanche has its own autopilot, which overrides the native one when the KLN is in use.
If anyone else in this thread could confirm that this happens every single time for them, that might be helpful, since I'm not seeing that myself. Videos are always helpful too, since I sometimes see subtle, seemingly unrelated things in videos that ultimately lead us to a solution.
Additionally, I would be interested to know if you could reproduce this in some default aircraft that is NOT equipped with any GPS system, so just with navigation radios. If so, then it would mean that it's almost certainly a simulator bug. If not, then it gives me a potential avenue to explore.
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I get it. I can't confirm or deny how the A2A autopilot works, but that would explain why the KLN works in their fleet but not in yours.
I will try to record a video and upload it so I can share it with you. I am planning to take the Caravan for a spin later this evening and then use the KLN to fly an ILS approach somewhere.
As for default aircraft, I can confirm I did not - so far - experience any intercept issues in the Working Title Cirrus SR22T and the Grumman Albatross - these are the only two default aircraft I ever touched (!) from the stock lineup. But I will re-test them to see if I can reproduce the issue in one of them.
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I get it. I can't confirm or deny how the A2A autopilot works, but that would explain why the KLN works in their fleet but not in yours.
I will try to record a video and upload it so I can share it with you. I am planning to take the Caravan for a spin later this evening and then use the KLN to fly an ILS approach somewhere.
As for default aircraft, I can confirm I did not - so far - experience any intercept issues in the Working Title Cirrus SR22T and the Grumman Albatross - these are the only two default aircraft I ever touched (!) from the stock lineup. But I will re-test them to see if I can reproduce the issue in one of them.
@kityatyi said in The Black Square fleet-wide ILS tracking issue continues:
Working Title Cirrus SR22T and the Grumman Albatross
Just in case it saves you some time, if both of those aircraft use the WT G1000, then I would expect them not to exhibit the issue, as they have the same WT autopilot as the GNS 530. To obtain useful information from the default aircraft, it would have to be from one without any avionics besides nav/com radios.
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@kityatyi said in The Black Square fleet-wide ILS tracking issue continues:
Working Title Cirrus SR22T and the Grumman Albatross
Just in case it saves you some time, if both of those aircraft use the WT G1000, then I would expect them not to exhibit the issue, as they have the same WT autopilot as the GNS 530. To obtain useful information from the default aircraft, it would have to be from one without any avionics besides nav/com radios.
The Albatross has several variants, a G1000, an analog, and now a G3X variant.
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Having Lots of ILS / LOC & RNAV Problems in msfs2024, with ALL BKSQ PRO Aircraft and the TBM-850. (NON GPS - ONLY KX155 and the KN-80/81 activated)
Also I noticed after spending many hours, that the system performance of the units change if i Use the KNS Units for something, and then try to do an ILS with either installed unit. Totally un-reliable for now. I Will also try these aircraft in msfs2020 to see if its the same there.
For me the Avionics and that they function correctly is very primary, and I have no doubt Nick & Team will fix these issues if possible.
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Having Lots of ILS / LOC & RNAV Problems in msfs2024, with ALL BKSQ PRO Aircraft and the TBM-850. (NON GPS - ONLY KX155 and the KN-80/81 activated)
Also I noticed after spending many hours, that the system performance of the units change if i Use the KNS Units for something, and then try to do an ILS with either installed unit. Totally un-reliable for now. I Will also try these aircraft in msfs2020 to see if its the same there.
For me the Avionics and that they function correctly is very primary, and I have no doubt Nick & Team will fix these issues if possible.
@ErnieBall So sorry to hear that some of you are still dealing with this. I was currently under the impression that this was endemic to many/all aircraft in MSFS 2024, and something for Asobo to fix. I have never experienced this myself, and from the frequency of reports, I think not everyone experiences this. Did you see the above mention of FSUIPC and 3rd programs that poll the state of the simulator?
If you want to add your voice to things on the Asobo end, here is the most recently updated official forum topic on the subject. I can make a topic in our developer support forum about this too.
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Thank You Sir for your reply
The stuff I experience might as well be on my end, but as I saw the others above and other places, I thought i would just give notice.I DO Have FCUIPC Running, and i can disable it as I dont useit for other that some "Heads up " Utility- Can do without if that helps.
I Also SPAD, and i can test to disable that as well!
But that one is hard to live without haha.I can also tell now after testing, that the BKSQ Analog Versions in MSFS2020 work as they should i believe.
Thats also great as I can have my IMC Approach "Fix" in that sim when needed haha.I WIll check out and se If I can add something to that ASOBO forum.
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BKSQ AP Issues.
Example - Bonanza Pro - Flying a short route as follows:Airport to a VOR using AP in HDG then NAV mode using KX155. Having previously set up the KNS-81 to use the same VOR as ref, I made an "Offset" WP1 from that, so after passing the VOR I Use the KNS-81 & RNAV mode to nav to WP1. I switch over HSI Source to RNAV, AND also Press the NAV/GPS Button to set AP to follow RNAV. I Then line up the AC towards WP1 with HDG Mode, and then Activate NAV mode on the AP, and it steers correctly towards WP1, also showing "DME Data" in the DME Display that has been set to show RNAV. - Perfect!
At WP1 I switch to HDG mode and turn towards the ILS (Set in KX155 NAV1) Feathers at a 30 Deg Angle and some miles out from where feathers start. Making sure HSI Source is now set to "NAV 1" & NAV/GPS mode to NAV, i activate APR Mode on the AP and get the correct AP Mode Annunciators APR & GS, and HSI indicates the Needle /CDI correctly. - . So Far So Good...
Entering LOC Center line the Needle starts moving but nothing happens, the AP does not capture the LOC at all, and I have tried lots of sets of Approaches and trying different things to get it to capture.
Finally I found, that If I immediatly after seeing the LOC Needle starts to move Press NAV/GPS mode to RNAV and then again back to NAV, Then the AP will capture the LOC/ILS correctly and the full ILS Phaze works as expected.
It seems that If I DO NOT use the KNS-80/81 during a Flight, The LOC/ILS Works as it should, and If I have used it, I must Restart the flight from the World map to "Reset" the AP system.
One more note only: When the AP does capture it almost always "aims" the AC towards the Rwy threshold and reaches LOC "center line" very late in my opinion
Hope this helps to find the "Bug"
