Engine model questions
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I mean, I get it... I am also super particular with these things but imagine the time and cost needed to address alot of these things. I will tell you as well, alot of this will be limitations in the sim (mixture behaviour for example). My suggestion (no joke) go fly a real airplane! You sound like you have good knowledge of airplanes. Maybe you are a pilot (I am too, although no medical now)
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You're not wrong. This is the part where A2A still has the edge in GA flying, although I feel their product has also more shortcomings compared to the older P3D releases.
However keep the price of the addon in mind. Most of the things you mentioned would require an engine model running externally from MSFS, which is a huge task. In daily ops BS is giving me more immersion than A2A.
Although I admit some points I would like to see updated as well: oil temperature and viscosity simulation, individual (slightly different) running engines and start on primer would be on top of my wishlist. -
Most of these items are very basic.
The COWS DA40 gets all of these right and they do not use an external engine model. -
Addition the the original posts
- As long as the propeller lever is out above the feather position, the propeller hub should be pressurised by the accumulator.
- Manifold pressure appears to switch between a "running" mode and "non running" mode when starting or windmilling.
Here are some tests I performed yesterday
https://streamable.com/aztjqu
https://streamable.com/yivhk2
https://streamable.com/rcos3v
https://streamable.com/3o1hso -
@MountainMen1167 Hello! Thank you for posting your findings here. Please excuse my delay in responding, I wanted to make sure I gathered my thoughts before writing. I hope you don't mind my lengthy reply, but I thought the amount of work you invested deserved an equally invested response.
Before we dig in to your observations, I wanted to say that I am always happy to hear from fellow pilots, engineers, and aircraft owners. Your suggestions always help me design better aircraft! These aircraft are passion projects for me, so my primary goal is to give my users unforgettable moments of virtual flying that have only recently become possible with MSFS.
I must admit that I found your accusations of "no evidence of anything being custom" and "a simple repaint of the default aircraft" to be undeniably hurtful. I've dedicated my life to these aircraft since MSFS 2020, as my friends and family can attest. I always try to do my best, and support the community with new features and custom code for their projects. While many of your critiques are perfectly valid, I hope that my extensive manuals might serve as evidence of the many custom features I prioritize during the roughly one year it takes to bring each aircraft to life.
I'm sorry that the aircraft did not match your expectations. I'm very sensitive to claims of false advertising, so I'm particular about what I write in my descriptions. I always publish my manuals online and provide the aircraft to video and print reviewers before each release so they can share their honest commentary. This gives the community the opportunity to learn about my aircraft before making a purchase decision.
I never claim to be the best, or anywhere close, but I always try to do my best and be honest about my limitations as a one-man-team.
With that said, I would much rather discuss the why's and how's of flight simulation from here. Thanks for bearing with me.
In theory, you've provided me with an exhaustive list of improvements that I can start working on immediately; however, you will see that a few challenges persist. I hope you won't mind if I don't address every single point by name, because most of them fall into three basic categories:
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Some of them are oversights in my latest release (after only one hotfix), like positive fuel flow with empty tanks, the starter not circulating oil, the oil pressure while exercising twin engine propellers, and number of compression wells. I have already fixed these oversights for the next update. I've also recently put a lot of time into my own oil temperature modifications to much better approximate the real aircraft, which you can read about here. The unrealistic mixture behavior is the result of deficiencies that have existed in Flight Simulator for ~30 years, and were fixed only recently. I've implemented these new fixes in my Commander 114, and plan to port the changes back to all my other aircraft in future updates. This is my typical workflow, so I can safely test major changes on new aircraft while continuously improving my fleet for existing users.
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There are also some features that have been on my backburner, and should be pretty simple. Often, it only takes the right suggestion from a user for me to implement these pending features. A few of your other points, I believe, are currently working in the aircraft, though I will have to test them later. For instance, engine performance being degraded by damage, propeller sync, and feathered propellers being affected by apparent wind.
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As you noted in the bulk of your points, I am not simulating a complete internal combustion engine and all of its accessories to the point where resistance is applied from alternator loads, or the fuel system will falter while flying inverted. While each of your points might seem small, I'm sure you can imagine how combining them into a standalone simulation that plays nicely with the parameters required by the simulator is no small task. Just to achieve most of the custom features you see in my aircraft today, I've had to wage war with the underlying simulation. The originally incorrect turbocharger mixture control, or the lack of fully stopped propeller feathering are two good examples. With each of these features come secondary and tertiary effects that can be hard to predict without the simulator's source code. Aircraft are incredibly complex systems of interconnected systems, as you know!
Now, that doesn't mean any of your requests are impossible! I often say, "anything is possible with software." In fact, I would argue that they would all make my aircraft undeniably better.
From here, it's only a matter of practicality. I am very lucky that I get to develop these aircraft as my full time job, but I hope you understand that I must consider the economics of development if I want to continue supporting my family. As I often say here, it breaks my heart when I am approached with wonderful ideas for new features that I would love to implement, but the realities of developing these systems by myself often hinders these aspirations. In short, spending a year to develop a feature that might only matter to 1% of simulator pilots could spell the end of Black Square entirely.
What can be done about the engine simulation shortcomings you list here? It appears there are essentially two approaches. One can either develop an external simulation and inject the solutions back into the simulator, or you can develop on top of Asobo's platform to add a substantial layer of realism. There are tradeoffs to each method, but the latter is the one I have chosen to specialize in myself. This is the fundamental difference between myself and at least one of the other developers you mention.
From the categories above:
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I have already fixed some of your points for the next updates to my aircraft.
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I have taken note of your features from this category to explore during upcoming work.
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Last are the features that would be very difficult to implement without fully separating my aircraft from the underlying simulation. These are the ones that break my heart, because I cannot currently justify the software redesign to bring them to fruition based on how the majority of my users interact with my aircraft. However, I always say that I can be convinced to undertake just about any amount of work if a substantial amount of the community make their desires known. I have also recently been speaking with a third party who might be able to contribute some of the exact features you mention here.
I hope this explains some of what you are experiencing, and provides a window into aircraft development for MSFS. While I'm working on some of your points for my future aircraft and updates, I hope you will stay in touch with any further suggestions you might have, because I always want to hear what my users are thinking.
Nick C.
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@Black-Square Sorry, this was not meant as a personal attack. Sorry if it came across as one.
I appreciate that you actually responded to this. I a made similar post about the A2A Comanche last year, only to get bullied by the users and being told by the staff saying things like "you are operating the plane wrong" and then removing the post. I have deleted that plane and will never touch an A2A product again.
It is just, the website and you say that the product features physics based and fuel injection simulation etc etc. Yet here on the forums you say that you are using the default MSFS engine system. These are the facts. What is marketed and what is actually happening are two different things and I as a customer feel deceived and lied to (again).
Yes I may be more detailed than most customers, but I fell like most of these items are basic requirements. (inverted flight, feedback of a rough running engine etc)
I hope you can take a look at these issues and fix most of them.
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@Black-Square Sorry, this was not meant as a personal attack. Sorry if it came across as one.
I appreciate that you actually responded to this. I a made similar post about the A2A Comanche last year, only to get bullied by the users and being told by the staff saying things like "you are operating the plane wrong" and then removing the post. I have deleted that plane and will never touch an A2A product again.
It is just, the website and you say that the product features physics based and fuel injection simulation etc etc. Yet here on the forums you say that you are using the default MSFS engine system. These are the facts. What is marketed and what is actually happening are two different things and I as a customer feel deceived and lied to (again).
Yes I may be more detailed than most customers, but I fell like most of these items are basic requirements. (inverted flight, feedback of a rough running engine etc)
I hope you can take a look at these issues and fix most of them.
@MountainMen1167 said in Engine model questions:
I a made similar post about the A2A Comanche last year, only to get bullied by the users...
Ever heard of deja vu?
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You only talk about engine parameters. What about correct spin behavior, working seatbelts and correct icing visualization and effects? Tire pressure simulation?
Just wanting to point out, even if the engine simulation was perfect, there would be the next "issue".
You have to keep in mind MSFS, while it may be used as a serious Sim to some degree, remains a home-user software with relatively cheap addons.
For the fidelity you are looking for, only a professional sim dedicated to one aircraft could provide that, which would cost thousands.
Blacksquare and A2A provide the best piston and turboprop GA addons on the market, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. If both don't fulfill your needs, nothing on the MSFS platform will. -
You only talk about engine parameters. What about correct spin behavior, working seatbelts and correct icing visualization and effects? Tire pressure simulation?
Just wanting to point out, even if the engine simulation was perfect, there would be the next "issue".
You have to keep in mind MSFS, while it may be used as a serious Sim to some degree, remains a home-user software with relatively cheap addons.
For the fidelity you are looking for, only a professional sim dedicated to one aircraft could provide that, which would cost thousands.
Blacksquare and A2A provide the best piston and turboprop GA addons on the market, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. If both don't fulfill your needs, nothing on the MSFS platform will.@MatzeH84 Well said!
