SID and STAR in CDU
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A note: You will be able to import SIDs/STARs/Airways via MSFS's flight plan importing features in v1.2 of Starship.
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@trisager It can fly some RNAV approaches, there will just be no vertical guidance if you're not using the GNS 430.
@jmarkows I find that if I put in the altitudes in vnav for the RNAV approach with the last one being the runway and the airport altitude I can get vs speed guidance as it tells you how fast to descend to hit that point at the altitude you have on the Vnav page.
I then fly down using IAS mode and power to control the vertical speed until the decision height, lateral guidance is fine.
Had to do this going into Sochi in cloud otherwise wouldn't have a clue how fast to descend.
I have no idea if this is the thing a real pilot would do but it works for me.
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@jmarkows I find that if I put in the altitudes in vnav for the RNAV approach with the last one being the runway and the airport altitude I can get vs speed guidance as it tells you how fast to descend to hit that point at the altitude you have on the Vnav page.
I then fly down using IAS mode and power to control the vertical speed until the decision height, lateral guidance is fine.
Had to do this going into Sochi in cloud otherwise wouldn't have a clue how fast to descend.
I have no idea if this is the thing a real pilot would do but it works for me.
@HansRoaming no reason you couldn't, and indeed that's a smart thing. I recently had to do a VOR approach in the Starship so I had to mental math it in public really quickly, but same idea.
That's not true vertical guidance and it doesn't count as VNAV for the purposes of minimums, though, I don't believe. You can absolutely do that and it's probably the thing to do, but you'd still need to use the LNAV only minimums.
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@HansRoaming no reason you couldn't, and indeed that's a smart thing. I recently had to do a VOR approach in the Starship so I had to mental math it in public really quickly, but same idea.
That's not true vertical guidance and it doesn't count as VNAV for the purposes of minimums, though, I don't believe. You can absolutely do that and it's probably the thing to do, but you'd still need to use the LNAV only minimums.
@jmarkows I agree, it's just easier than working it out in one's head and yes, it's not VNAV.
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In the real world your navigation equipment would have to be certified for use with a particular approach type, including LNAV. If it isn't, you can't (legally) fly the approach. Assuming the non-gps avionics in the Starship are not certified for LNAV approaches (I don't belive they are), you would be stuck with ILS, VOR, and NDB approaches in IFR.
SIDs and STARs are not approaches. You would be fine entering the waypoints manually and flying those.
In MSFS, do whatever works, and enjoy the freedom from regulatory oversight.
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In the real world your navigation equipment would have to be certified for use with a particular approach type, including LNAV. If it isn't, you can't (legally) fly the approach. Assuming the non-gps avionics in the Starship are not certified for LNAV approaches (I don't belive they are), you would be stuck with ILS, VOR, and NDB approaches in IFR.
SIDs and STARs are not approaches. You would be fine entering the waypoints manually and flying those.
In MSFS, do whatever works, and enjoy the freedom from regulatory oversight.
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@jmarkows I tried to find a reference (FAA or ICAO) confirming that SIDs and STARs had to be loaded from an on board database, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
Is this something you know (from sources other than flight sim), or do you know where that requirement is stated?
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It's so confusing. I fly the Starship with the GNS430 disabled. The starship manual states something about manually entering waypoints for an rnav approach if the approach is based off a VOR and how to fly it using the manual sequence function.
Also according to what Nick says, as far as he's aware, all the starships now have GNSS receiver installed in the avionics bay in the nose and his aircraft does, it also has GPS RAIM page in the FMS.
I dunno if this is the right way to do things but I load waypoints of an RNAV SID/STAR or approach manually as long as the chart doesn't state RNAV1 required. These are very few but I found one or two in Africa.
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I agree, it is a big challenge if you are used to modern GPS-equipped aircraft in the sim.
I think what Nick describes is similar to flying a VOR approach using a GPS overlay? (Where the GPS will warn you that it is advisory only, you still have to monitor the VOR)
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@jmarkows I tried to find a reference (FAA or ICAO) confirming that SIDs and STARs had to be loaded from an on board database, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
Is this something you know (from sources other than flight sim), or do you know where that requirement is stated?
@trisager I have heard it through the grapevine that it is an ICAO requirement. I am not a real pilot, but I am a VATSIM S3 in the US so I looked through the 7110.65 and found the FAA does have a similar one. I don't have it offhand and am unlikely to find it on mobile, I will try to remember to look again when I get home way later.
Edit: I did have a few minutes to spare and I found a partial source: the FAA AIM, not the 7110.65, states in section 5-4-1 Arrival Procedures that "Use of STARs requires pilot possession of at least the approved chart. RNAV STARs must be retrievable by the procedure name from the aircraft database and conform to charted procedure." I believe it's sub section c but the mobile format of the AIM is really cramped.
The Departure Procedures doesn't seem to have the same verbiage but I'll keep looking at it as time allows. I thought I remembered the phrase "loading individual waypoints is not sufficient," but maybe that was the ICAO snippet quoted to me at some point in the near past.
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It's so confusing. I fly the Starship with the GNS430 disabled. The starship manual states something about manually entering waypoints for an rnav approach if the approach is based off a VOR and how to fly it using the manual sequence function.
Also according to what Nick says, as far as he's aware, all the starships now have GNSS receiver installed in the avionics bay in the nose and his aircraft does, it also has GPS RAIM page in the FMS.
I dunno if this is the right way to do things but I load waypoints of an RNAV SID/STAR or approach manually as long as the chart doesn't state RNAV1 required. These are very few but I found one or two in Africa.
@Sunake said in SID and STAR in CDU:
It's so confusing. I fly the Starship with the GNS430 disabled. The starship manual states something about manually entering waypoints for an rnav approach if the approach is based off a VOR and how to fly it using the manual sequence function.
Also according to what Nick says, as far as he's aware, all the starships now have GNSS receiver installed in the avionics bay in the nose and his aircraft does, it also has GPS RAIM page in the FMS.
I dunno if this is the right way to do things but I load waypoints of an RNAV SID/STAR or approach manually as long as the chart doesn't state RNAV1 required. These are very few but I found one or two in Africa.
In 1997 Collins was approved for an STC on the AMS850 as installed in the Beechjet 400A allowing pilots to make GPS approaches and to use GPS as a primary means of navigation. This would have been an easy STC to get approved for the Starship since they were using the same navigation part of the avionics suite.
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Alright, I should really get back to work, but in the FAA Instrument Procedure Handbook it is stated that
"Pilots are not authorized to fly a published RNAV or RNP procedure unless it is retrievable by the procedure name from the navigation database and conforms to the charted procedure. No other modification of database waypoints or creation of user-defined waypoints on published RNAV or RNP procedures is permitted, except to change altitude and/or airspeed waypoint constraints to comply with an ATC clearance/ instruction, or to insert a waypoint along the published route to assist in complying with an ATC instruction. "
This is in place for both Departure and Arrival Procedures. That's about as far as I can dig right now. Interesting the AIM doesn't quote it in the departure procedures section like it does arrivals. The IPH can be found here.
