Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?
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You will see my response in the other thread, but what happens on the WT GNS in terms of what buttons you press should be identical to any other aircraft, as all I do is import the WT GNS, just as any other aircraft.
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Is it OK to setup your flight in the MSFS 2024 flight planner and then do "Send to ATC and Avionics"? Or do you need to enter manually in the FMS and then the GNS (if you want RNAV)? Does either or both of them have any issues getting flights from the MSFS flight planner?
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So I tried a flight today, and it was never putting anything into the GNS 430.
If I do "Send to ATC and Avionics" before starting the flight, it would send it to the FMS flight plan.
If I do "Send to ATC and Avionics" after I start the flight, it would never update the FMS, it doesn't seem to do anything. The flight has to be entered manually.
Following waypoints seems to be hit and miss for me, I can't figure out why sometimes it follows the flight plan and sometimes it doesn't. On the upside I managed to do my first ILS landing, following the GS, using only the FMS. Loading the approach from the FMS got me the wrong ILS frequency though, for CYGK it loaded 111.9 instead of 111.3. -
Yes, I'm referring to the APPR button on the autopilot Mode Control Panel (MCP). If the lights are not working, it might be the occasional fluke with the Working Title GNS's hot-swapping system. I've noticed it is the least stable of the major GPS units in flight sim. Try just toggling the GNS on and off again using the AP NAV SRC option on the CDU.
Let me know if you have any more questions about navigation with Starship. There really aren't any major tricks, so you might be overthinking it, as I have seen with some other posters. Always happy to help!
@Black-Square said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
Yes, I'm referring to the APPR button on the autopilot Mode Control Panel (MCP). If the lights are not working, it might be the occasional fluke with the Working Title GNS's hot-swapping system. I've noticed it is the least stable of the major GPS units in flight sim. Try just toggling the GNS on and off again using the AP NAV SRC option on the CDU.
Let me know if you have any more questions about navigation with Starship. There really aren't any major tricks, so you might be overthinking it, as I have seen with some other posters. Always happy to help!
I could not get vertical guidance to work on a couple of RNAV approaches. I got a white GS but the plane would not lower altitude. I noticed that typically when loading and activating a GNS RNAV approach, I would get a green little "GNSL" symbol and a white GS top left and on the right. But on my last approach I also got a little "GNSV" below the "GNSL" in the top left corner. Does this mean RNAV vertical guidance actually works?
So you do need to hit APPR on the Starship autopilot to allow vertical guidance from the GNS during an RNAV approach? How about if you have any of the Altitude options selected at the same time, do they interfere with GNS vertical guidance?
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I suppose this is as good a place to put this in as any, rather than making my own topic.
I tried an ILS approach today, I had it tuned and set up manually (will it even auto tune if you have it programmed? I didn't try but didn't see any frequency info anywhere), and was given a heading to intercept it. I had HDG as the current FD mode and armed APPR. It did not grab it as I went by even though I saw the CDI deflect. I had to select NAV and then APPR for it to grab it.
Should APPR be something that's armed and then automatically capture?
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I suppose this is as good a place to put this in as any, rather than making my own topic.
I tried an ILS approach today, I had it tuned and set up manually (will it even auto tune if you have it programmed? I didn't try but didn't see any frequency info anywhere), and was given a heading to intercept it. I had HDG as the current FD mode and armed APPR. It did not grab it as I went by even though I saw the CDI deflect. I had to select NAV and then APPR for it to grab it.
Should APPR be something that's armed and then automatically capture?
@jmarkows said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
I suppose this is as good a place to put this in as any, rather than making my own topic.
I tried an ILS approach today, I had it tuned and set up manually (will it even auto tune if you have it programmed? I didn't try but didn't see any frequency info anywhere), and was given a heading to intercept it. I had HDG as the current FD mode and armed APPR. It did not grab it as I went by even though I saw the CDI deflect. I had to select NAV and then APPR for it to grab it.
Should APPR be something that's armed and then automatically capture?
For ILS, make sure your ILS frequency is shown in VOR 1 ahead of time (it does not seem to auto-populate this for me when I load the approach in the FMS). Have the GS intercept altitude set with the altitude dial, and make sure you get to that altitude before you try to intercept the GS.
When you're mostly lined up with the ILS, and under the GS altitude, change source to VOR 1. Then hit APPR. Also right-click on the CRS buttons to make sure they point the correct way. You should see the green ILS arrow pointing towards the runway, and you should see a GS symbol and the GS arrow coming down. If all goes well, you will catch the GS and go down automatically.
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I suppose this is as good a place to put this in as any, rather than making my own topic.
I tried an ILS approach today, I had it tuned and set up manually (will it even auto tune if you have it programmed? I didn't try but didn't see any frequency info anywhere), and was given a heading to intercept it. I had HDG as the current FD mode and armed APPR. It did not grab it as I went by even though I saw the CDI deflect. I had to select NAV and then APPR for it to grab it.
Should APPR be something that's armed and then automatically capture?
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@Black-Square said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
Yes, I'm referring to the APPR button on the autopilot Mode Control Panel (MCP). If the lights are not working, it might be the occasional fluke with the Working Title GNS's hot-swapping system. I've noticed it is the least stable of the major GPS units in flight sim. Try just toggling the GNS on and off again using the AP NAV SRC option on the CDU.
Let me know if you have any more questions about navigation with Starship. There really aren't any major tricks, so you might be overthinking it, as I have seen with some other posters. Always happy to help!
I could not get vertical guidance to work on a couple of RNAV approaches. I got a white GS but the plane would not lower altitude. I noticed that typically when loading and activating a GNS RNAV approach, I would get a green little "GNSL" symbol and a white GS top left and on the right. But on my last approach I also got a little "GNSV" below the "GNSL" in the top left corner. Does this mean RNAV vertical guidance actually works?
So you do need to hit APPR on the Starship autopilot to allow vertical guidance from the GNS during an RNAV approach? How about if you have any of the Altitude options selected at the same time, do they interfere with GNS vertical guidance?
@Marionettework For me the only way vertical navigation worked with the GNS is by selecting APPR. Which makes sense as the autopilot does not have a real vertical navigation mode, only an APPR mode. Also, vertical navigation (GNSV - GS capture) can only happen if you intersect the glide slope. If everything is set up correctly you should see a GS scale on the right side so you can know if you need to decend more to capture.
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@jmarkows I had the same experience, APPR mode could not be selected from HDG mode. I could only select APPR when I first selected NAV. Not sure if this is intended or not.
@Faerblaed what's happening is when in HDG mode, hitting APPR for the vertical mode, but not the lateral mode. I see GS appear in white on the PFD, but not LOC next to HDG.
Maybe because I'm getting late clearances to capture, but I have to quickly hit NAV and then APPR in order to get it to follow the LOC.
It's not an issue of having the ILS tuned in, I did that myself miles out and was receiving it.
I also have the GNS removed from my cockpit.
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@Faerblaed what's happening is when in HDG mode, hitting APPR for the vertical mode, but not the lateral mode. I see GS appear in white on the PFD, but not LOC next to HDG.
Maybe because I'm getting late clearances to capture, but I have to quickly hit NAV and then APPR in order to get it to follow the LOC.
It's not an issue of having the ILS tuned in, I did that myself miles out and was receiving it.
I also have the GNS removed from my cockpit.
@jmarkows I think we both experience the same. I too just quickly switch from HDG to NAV and then to APPR. This seems to work.
Not sure if I was ever able to get vertical navigation activeted (glide slope capture) with the APPR button while in HDG mode, but for sure HDG -> NAV -> APPR works for both vertical and lateral. -
@jmarkows said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
I suppose this is as good a place to put this in as any, rather than making my own topic.
I tried an ILS approach today, I had it tuned and set up manually (will it even auto tune if you have it programmed? I didn't try but didn't see any frequency info anywhere), and was given a heading to intercept it. I had HDG as the current FD mode and armed APPR. It did not grab it as I went by even though I saw the CDI deflect. I had to select NAV and then APPR for it to grab it.
Should APPR be something that's armed and then automatically capture?
For ILS, make sure your ILS frequency is shown in VOR 1 ahead of time (it does not seem to auto-populate this for me when I load the approach in the FMS). Have the GS intercept altitude set with the altitude dial, and make sure you get to that altitude before you try to intercept the GS.
When you're mostly lined up with the ILS, and under the GS altitude, change source to VOR 1. Then hit APPR. Also right-click on the CRS buttons to make sure they point the correct way. You should see the green ILS arrow pointing towards the runway, and you should see a GS symbol and the GS arrow coming down. If all goes well, you will catch the GS and go down automatically.
@Marionettework said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
@jmarkows said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
I suppose this is as good a place to put this in as any, rather than making my own topic.
I tried an ILS approach today, I had it tuned and set up manually (will it even auto tune if you have it programmed? I didn't try but didn't see any frequency info anywhere), and was given a heading to intercept it. I had HDG as the current FD mode and armed APPR. It did not grab it as I went by even though I saw the CDI deflect. I had to select NAV and then APPR for it to grab it.
Should APPR be something that's armed and then automatically capture?
For ILS, make sure your ILS frequency is shown in VOR 1 ahead of time (it does not seem to auto-populate this for me when I load the approach in the FMS). Have the GS intercept altitude set with the altitude dial, and make sure you get to that altitude before you try to intercept the GS.
When you're mostly lined up with the ILS, and under the GS altitude, change source to VOR 1. Then hit APPR. Also right-click on the CRS buttons to make sure they point the correct way. You should see the green ILS arrow pointing towards the runway, and you should see a GS symbol and the GS arrow coming down. If all goes well, you will catch the GS and go down automatically.
As I said, everything was already tuned and set up, FMS set to VOR nav, etc. APPR is not arming a lateral mode.
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@Black-Square Nick, I saw you mentioned you're working on some bugs, is the above one of them? Where APPR in 2024 doesn't seem to arm a lateral mode?
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Honestly, I haven't even had a chance to look into it yet. I hit my breaking point with MSFS 2024's bugs, so I have been completely rewriting large sections of Starship's code to make use of my own modified native flight planner, and doing all my own autopilot calculations. As I said to someone else, it seems the only correct move to make when working on MSFS to wrestle as much control away from MSFS as possible. Although In don't want to jinx myself, the result of wrestling that control usually results in far better outcomes than doing otherwise.
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Sorry to hear this is so frustrating, I bet you’d rather be working on something else. On the other hand, we will remember this when people ask “where is the 2024 version of <insert plane> and we’re ready to spread the word”
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Honestly, I haven't even had a chance to look into it yet. I hit my breaking point with MSFS 2024's bugs, so I have been completely rewriting large sections of Starship's code to make use of my own modified native flight planner, and doing all my own autopilot calculations. As I said to someone else, it seems the only correct move to make when working on MSFS to wrestle as much control away from MSFS as possible. Although In don't want to jinx myself, the result of wrestling that control usually results in far better outcomes than doing otherwise.
@Black-Square said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
Honestly, I haven't even had a chance to look into it yet. I hit my breaking point with MSFS 2024's bugs, so I have been completely rewriting large sections of Starship's code to make use of my own modified native flight planner, and doing all my own autopilot calculations. As I said to someone else, it seems the only correct move to make when working on MSFS to wrestle as much control away from MSFS as possible. Although In don't want to jinx myself, the result of wrestling that control usually results in far better outcomes than doing otherwise.
I have some "sad" news to report, I was able to fly a GNS 430 RNAV approach in 2024 after practicing a bunch of times in 2020. I think the main issue is the HDG bug, after selecting HDG, AUTO LEG doesn't work, that's a real problem. Workaround is to use HDG again or MAN LEG until the next waypoint, and I'm pretty sure AUTO LEG works after the first one.
GNS guidance does work, the main issue is when you enable FMS/GNS, the autopilot goes off, and then you have to set everything properly again (enable FMS again, set your Altitude and descent etc.). After doing that, the aircraft was following GNSL, and then after hitting APR I got GNSV and GS, as in 2020. I don't know yet if this works every time, but it worked...
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@Black-Square said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
Honestly, I haven't even had a chance to look into it yet. I hit my breaking point with MSFS 2024's bugs, so I have been completely rewriting large sections of Starship's code to make use of my own modified native flight planner, and doing all my own autopilot calculations. As I said to someone else, it seems the only correct move to make when working on MSFS to wrestle as much control away from MSFS as possible. Although In don't want to jinx myself, the result of wrestling that control usually results in far better outcomes than doing otherwise.
I have some "sad" news to report, I was able to fly a GNS 430 RNAV approach in 2024 after practicing a bunch of times in 2020. I think the main issue is the HDG bug, after selecting HDG, AUTO LEG doesn't work, that's a real problem. Workaround is to use HDG again or MAN LEG until the next waypoint, and I'm pretty sure AUTO LEG works after the first one.
GNS guidance does work, the main issue is when you enable FMS/GNS, the autopilot goes off, and then you have to set everything properly again (enable FMS again, set your Altitude and descent etc.). After doing that, the aircraft was following GNSL, and then after hitting APR I got GNSV and GS, as in 2020. I don't know yet if this works every time, but it worked...
@Marionettework said in Any chance we can get a video or step by step on how to setup and follow a simple ILS approach?:
I have some "sad" news to report, I was able to fly a GNS 430 RNAV approach in 2024 after practicing a bunch of times in 2020. I think the main issue is the HDG bug, after selecting HDG, AUTO LEG doesn't work, that's a real problem. Workaround is to use HDG again or MAN LEG until the next waypoint, and I'm pretty sure AUTO LEG works after the first one.
As I've said elsewhere, this should be fixed in the next update (hopefully tomorrow) by my completely custom autopilot controller.
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It's been 15 years since I graduated with my ME in EE, and unfortunately my school was infinitely more focused on signal processing rather than any sort of hardware design or anything remotely circuit related, but I remember loving the courses I took on feedback control.
Did you enjoy doing your own AP controller?
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It's not every day I get a more philosophical question here, haha. I live to make these airplanes, on a base level. I am not happy at all that I must code almost everything from scratch when the simulator's code doesn't work. In this particular instance, I am actually more upset that I had to do this for a bug, rather than to implement some new features that I had in mind. If I had done this months ago, you guys would have a Starship that actually loses track of where it is when operating on only Omega. That may still be to come, but not before I get some sleep first!
