Cabin environmental bug - see video
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUCGgY3gYY
Is it just me, or is the cabin somehow magically keeping itself warm if you take off and climb with the air conditioning turned on?
As soon as you turn it off or select any other mode, observe how the air supply almost instantly turns cold.
Is this a bug? @Black-Square
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Additional information - flying the piston engine model now and the issue isn't present, so it's possible this is only affecting the turboprop model.
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I think I know what's going on, and it's not not necessarily wrong, just hard to understand from the graphics, I will be the first to admit.
When the environmental controller has power (even in AC mode), it's regulating the bleed air flow valves to heat the cabin. When you turn the controller off, the cabin air mixing valve moves to admit only unconditioned air from the plenum into the cabin, which is not warmed. The reason you don't see this in the piston version is that all heating in this configuration (bypass valves fully open) would be supplied by the combustion air heater, not any bleed air valves.
I will admit, that one took some thinking! I'll play with this when I have the simulator open later to make sure I understand what's going on here, and see if I can come up with a better way to depict it on the tablet. I think if you went and looked at the engine page of the tablet at the same time, you would see the bleed air valve close most of the way when the environmental control system is off.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll let you know if I find that there is any incorrect behavior.
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@Black-Square Ah okay, I totally understand. HVAC is of interest to me, besides electrical which is my favorite. (I do work in a Garmin shop IRL after all lol)
So, I have a different question then.
In this video, I move the mode switch from auto heat to manual heat. You see the air in the plenum get much hotter. Then I put it back to auto, and it gets colder again. What moved in there to make that happen? Is that not shown in the diagram? If not, can it be? It seems as though some door or valve isn't depicted here, that causes that.
I absolutely love the study screens, they remind me of Hot Start stuff for Xplane. I think every aircraft in every flight sim should have this. Also by the way - are you planning on retrofitting your previous aircraft with this tablet/synoptic standard?
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Great question! (thanks for the videos, btw. It really helps me understand exactly what people are looking at)
Two things change when you enter manual heating mode. The visible one is the cabin air mixing valve, depicted on the left of the cabin-to-plenum bulkhead. It opens to admit 100% heated air from the combustion heater output. The invisible one is the combustion air heater regulator, which is set to maximum, which feeds more fuel into the heater.
I'm glad you like them! That's exactly how I see them too, as "study" or "learning" screens. We don't have them in real aircraft, which makes this a learning opportunity exclusive to the simulator world! I can't believe the number of people complaining about the tablet that I've seen online after it was my number one requested feature. I don't know why just not opening the tablet and foregoing all that it offers is not an acceptable solution, but rest assured, the Black Square tablet is here to stay.
Oh, yes, the TBM will get a tablet, and I've already made the one for the Starship. My older aircraft are a little different of a story. I would like to do standalone versions of them, which would receive the tablet, but I think I'm going to wait to see what FS2024 brings us, good and bad, before I undertake that project. Thanks for asking!
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@Black-Square please ignore anyone complaining about the tablet. it's awesome and i look at it all the time to analyze and learn about what's going on. superb job, i love it and can't wait for it to show up on the pocket rocket 850 :D
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@Black-Square Ahhhh okay. That makes sense. These are just ideas - perhaps you could make that animated flame change size to reflect a range from minimum to maximum possible heating output. Or a numeric figure from 0 to 100%. Or the speed of the animated fuel in the heater fuel line could vary. Or some combination of those things. Something like that, I don't know.
Yes, absolutely. I don't know why anyone would not like the tablet, especially when they can just choose to keep it stowed. Some people just have to complain about something.
That's great news to hear it will be the new standard. Definitely looking forward to the Starship and....anything else....coughsuch as what we talked aboutcough....you make in the future! Heheh.
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I joke with the Just Flight guys that the only reason I add new features is so that people will have something new to complain about :)
I could make the flame size change, and I could change the color of the air in the combustion heater. Those are good suggestions. I'll look into it, but I will also prepare you for why these things may not come to fruition. There are many "useful simplifications" when it comes to making systems this detailed. Not simplifications in how the user experiences the simulation, but rather the source of the effects. For example, before I started making these visualizers, "heat" was just "heat". You didn't have to know where it was coming from. It just warmed the cabin. Now, things are much more complex, but there are still simplifications that sometimes get in the way of visualizing some effects on the tablet that would otherwise seem easy. Sometimes I can make a quick modification to add what I'm looking for, and sometimes it's not so easy. Sorry, just a little view into what it's like trying to add some of these features.
I'm absolutely delighted to see how you're using the new tablet interface, though! This is exactly what I had hoped it would accomplish.
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@Black-Square
Please, please make V2 standalone versions of your previous aircraft!
They deserve some opening doors, a Boris soundset, proper Flightmodels and offcourse an EFB. :-)
I learned to fly on the exact models of the Bonanza and Baron you created, 26 years ago. I've already had so many flights bringing back wonderful memories.
I would happily pay full price again for an updated version and, as you said, after the 2024 Release might be good timing.Thank you for making all these planes come alive and your continuous development.
Kind Regards,
André -
Possibly related to this: should the compressor motor show as running when the A/C is on? Today was the first day I’d try to use the piston Duke in somewhat warm weather (outside temp 83°F), and the cockpit soared to 100°F and wouldn’t drop no matter what I did (all air valves pulled out, environment mode set to manual cooling with the temperature cranked fully counterclockwise, and I tried having the vent blower on both high and low … nothing made that motor appear to spin on the tablet and nothing brought down the temperature at all). I don’t know what I was doing wrong, but it puzzles me that the compressor didn’t appear to be running even though the A/C door was shown as open.
Edit: I just rewatched the Environmental video on the Duke and saw that the compressor on the tablet interface does spin, but only if the right engine power is increased. I think I did that (on both engines actually) and didn’t see it start running, but I’ll try it again later on. I’m hoping this is just another lack of understanding on my part!
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You are correct about the conditions required to make the compressor run, and that it should be depicted on the tablet. It's possible that you have a failure interfering with the operation of the compressor, but a somewhat unlikely coincidence.
I would say that engine RPM is the most likely culprit, but it's also possible that you are defeating the AC's attempts at cooling the aircraft by having "all air valves pulled out". Some of the vents are pull to open, others are push to open, also if you pulled out the intercooler bypass handles above the red pressurization shutoff valves, then the AC will be competing with extremely hot plenum air, and will probably never cool the cabin. Let me know if you have any more issues! Always happy to help.
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@Black-Square I think I have caught the ECS in the piston Duke misbehaving. Hot out on the ground, running the AC. Take off, climb, it gets cold out. Somehow, despite still being set to auto cool, it's making heat.
Let me know if you want a video for this one
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Do you say that because the cabin is maintaining the temperature shown in the screenshot, or simply because of the green gradient on the output from the combustion heater? If the former, then I will look into it.
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@Black-Square Both actually. As I climbed, the temp in the cabin didn't go lower, and the green gradient seemed odd too as there would be nothing making heat..?
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@Black-Square - FYI, it was indeed the right engine RPM that was apparently my problem. On my latest flight I needed A/C on the ground and then heat at altitude, and I got both of them to work pretty well. I think it’s an interesting exercise to run the right engine fast enough to operate the compressor just often enough to keep the cabin from getting hot while still managing to do the required ground ops … taxiing being a particular problem. Also, while I may not know exactly what I’m doing with everything in this plane yet, I definitely was never pulling out the intercooler bypass handles … that clearly was NOT going to cool things off. 🤓
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@Black-Square Just curious if you found anything wrong here?
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I finally got around to testing this. Yup! You got one!
It only happens when flying with the AC on, after it's been effective, into colder air. It can also happen the other way around to produce erroneous heat by flying from colder air into warmer air. I'm quite surprised I didn't catch this one already. Thanks you for pointing it out. All fixed now!
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@Black-Square I just wanted to say how wonderful your attitude is to us folk who are pointing out potential issues with your amazing products. I'm well aware of how much easier it is to comment on something than it is to create the thing being commented on, and I wouldn't blame you at all for being slightly defensive. Instead, you are open and welcoming of such feedback, with a complete lack of any visible ego, which is so rare and such a wonderful thing. Thank you.
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@Black-Square Right on, glad I could help by finding it lol! The environmental simulation is one of my fav parts about your aircraft. I mean, besides everything else too lmao.
You rock!
