Trim speed painfully slow
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Re: Trim speed when using Alpha yoke or Brave throttle painfully slow
The last update has reduced the trim speed to a level
that makes flying the JF warrior/arrows pretty much impossible. I'm using the Honeycomb alpha yoke and the bravo throttle. It's hard for me to even find the words to describe how slow the trim is on my alpha or the bravo.For example, I usually need 25ish % of nose up trim on final. Holding down the (electronic) trim button on the alpha, it takes 40 seconds to get there (and also to cancel the trim out on touchs and goes). By that time I'm already on downwind. Even for slight power adjustments I need to hold down the trim switches 5 - 10 seconds, which is way too long. I don't even know how many revolutions that would take on the bravo trim wheel as the physical trim wheel moves the virtual trim wheel even slower.
And yes, I know about the rectangular white button under the pilot's yoke for the arrows. That button is activated.
I don't understand why there aren't more people complaining about this issue, as I guess it's the same for everybody else using the Honeycomb hardware. And I imagine it not being hardware related. In fact, even the default keyboard shortcut keys move the trim wheel at the same speed. This has to be an issue, right?
Yes, before the latest update the trim was a little too sensitive. But not by much. Right now, the plane is pretty much impossible to fly. Having spend more than 70€ on the whole PA28 line, I feel kind of cheated.
In the post linked above, @Delta558 suggested to alter the flight_model.cfg file. That worked to some degree before, but the current value of the elevator_trim_effectiveness is at 1.0. I tried setting this value to something like 5.0 but that did not speed up the trim. It looks like values above 1.0 don't work at all, as the trim wheel is then stuck and doesn't move at all (even with the mouse).
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@petze I've mentioned before how I prefer faster trim, but it seems the overwhelming majority of other users prefer slower trim for finer adjustments so it makes sense that's what they'd go with. I use SPAD.neXt, so my solution was to create a custom action that just sends multiple trim up/down commands each time trim wheel is spun one "notch", but without some 3rd party software there's no way that I know of to adjust it.
It's another one of those things that requires some compromise in a sim due to lack of force feedback. The white button is a good solution, but I do wish having the button activated sped it up even more.
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@petze I find it works perfectly for me on the Arrow using the trim buttons on a Yoko yoke. I don't have the Warrior, so I don't know if the trim speed is common to all the Justflight PA28s. If so, I would ask that if it can be changed for Honeycombe users, it be done in a way that it can be left as it is for non-Honeycombe users please if that is possible.
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Actually the speeds ARE different. I just tested it with the Arrow III and there the trim is far quicker.
Do you mind running a little test, if you have time, to check if we are both seeing the same? Load the Arrow III at a parking spot. The trim should be set to neural. Now press and hold the yoke's trim switch and count the seconds it takes to trim fully nose up.
I did the same and it took me only 15 seconds. That's what I would expect.
You did say you don't have the Warrior II, but just for comparison, the same exercise takes me 2min28sec. So there is clearly an issue with the Warrior. The question is now, is there an issue on my end or is this intended to be that slow on the Warrior?
And just to be sure, I re-installed the latest version from my profile.
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@petze have the same issue.
this bug occurred earlier in the arrow during beta SU8 but there was oposite and to sensitive and has been fixed and working great.
Thread here:
https://community.justflight.com/topic/3195/extremly-sensitive-pitch-trim-su8-beta/14 -
@petze said in Trim speed painfully slow:
@sender46
Do you mind running a little test, if you have time, to check if we are both seeing the same? Load the Arrow III at a parking spot. The trim should be set to neural. Now press and hold the yoke's trim switch and count the seconds it takes to trim fully nose up.I did the same and it took me only 15 seconds. That's what I would expect.
I just did that with the Arrow III and it took 15 seconds, same as you. That works great for me.
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I have this same issue with the warrior and the honeycomb alpha on a fresh install. The trim is so slow I thought the button was broken on the yoke. First honeycomb alpha took about 10 months to RMA door to door so I was selfishly relieved when I saw your post. Thanks for bringing this up.
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The problem is with the hardware being used, see the following thread on the MSFS forum where the initial post is exactly the same but with a default aircraft/
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/trim-is-sooo-slow-honeycomb-bravo/504008It is just not possible to configure flight model files to accommodate every type of hardware, and it is only the Honeycomb Bravo that seems to have this issue. The fix is is mentioned in that thread but it has to be for the end user to impliment - if we set the flight model files to suit the Bravo it would mess up trim for anybody not using a Bravo. If this were FSX or P3D, we would simply provide a separate file so users could switch. Unfortunately, with MSFS it is never simple and we are unable to do that for marketplace compatibility reasons.
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@delta558 said in Trim speed painfully slow:
Unfortunately, with MSFS it is never simple and we are unable to do that for marketplace compatibility reasons.
The Pipers have a separate engine.cfg file for Honeycomb users (or Logitech switch panel users, in my case) to make startup with the built-in switch usable; could a similar thing not be done for trim?
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@jmarkows as far as I am aware, this is only possible for products bought outside the marketplace. I'm sure there will be discussion about this but, for example, we talked about the Hawk nosewheel steering - realistic is differential braking and a free castering nosewheel but for many simmers that's difficult to control so steering was also enabled. I was told that, because of the desire to get the aircraft in the marketplace, we were unable to offer alternative cfg files and the 'switcher tool' that worked so well in P3D, so it was one or the other. We'll discuss and see what can be done.
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@delta558 there is no talking about hardware input only but also trims keyboard standard buttons which all working extremly slow. In Arrow there is a button bellow yoke to changing electrical trim which work as elevator speed change of elevator. Warrior don't have that option. It takes an enormous amount of time to go from the landing trim phase to the take-off trim phase, say after go around.
Trim 20 to trim 5-10.
Is there any chance to introduce exactly the same trimmer action in Warrior as in Arrow? I have the impression that the last update, which was aimed at reducing the trim, slowed everything down cruelly. -
@petze I've found a third party software called authentikit tuning app has a preset for the honeycomb bravo trim wheel that fixes this issue completely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx6KJ0dEtus It works by turning the trim wheel into an axes. Then you can set the rate but the preset is very good.
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@bl52002 Be very careful when using a trim axis if you are not used to using one (as such).
It will now have memory between flights, and even using the autopilot for a bit will cause a (potentially large) discontinuity between where your physical axis is and where the virtual axis is.
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Hi and sorry that I'm rather late joining this thread. I would concur with others here that the trim for the Warrior is very slow to activate.
I use a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X controller and have the POV button programmed for UP and Down trim and it does take a lot of presses (or holds for up/down) to get a response.I think that the Warrior is my main 'go to' aircraft and I really enjoy flying it - the ground handling, take-off and general flying are all good experiences with the exception of the trim.
Whilst I'm commenting, there is something else that has become a bit of a pain over the last six months and that is the nose of the aircraft seems to 'peck' up and down on a final approach. If I'm in cockpit view and sit back a little, I can see the yokes bobbing up and down slightly - even if I try to remain 'hands off' my own control stick for periods.
Not sure this was always the case? -
It’s a plus 1 for me on the extremely slow elevator trim. I am using the saitek yoke system, which has not been mentioned above. The timings for a full cycle of trim from neutral are in the realms of minutes as stated above. I’m going with unflyable
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Painfully slow here too. X55
There should be 2 speeds, depending on flap state iirc but seems to go very slow.
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The trim wheel is insanely slow for me as well. It's better in the Arrows. But the warrior takes minutes to trim. It's frankly unusable and I have to resort to using the mouse to move the wheel, which is an awful way to fly this plane.
This has nothing to do with hardware! I'm using the Alpha Yoke and the Warthog Throttle, but it's just as slow using keyboard num1 and num7. This really needs to get fixed.
