Hub and Sprocket Route Generation and Scheduling
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Hello,
I have seen posts below detailing the issue of the Hub and Sprocket route structure that Fly the Line uses. I would like to add that this is not industry standard or at least it is not universally adopted. I flew well over two years at a Regional Airline with most of my flights averaging between 1-2 hours in an ERJ-145. A majority of my trips were 2-3 days and while we went back to the hub (KEWR) often we almost never ended our day there and quite often you would go between 2 satellite stations.
As a game play mechanic, the idea of a 113 day schedule that forces me back to the same airport for a total of 145 total take off and landings IMO is not a great.
We already have a mechanic that forces me to fly for instance in July which apparently means day time flying, and now your adding on mechanic that is requiring me to go back to the same airport and perform the exact same approaches, again, and again and again.
A couple of suggestions:
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I love the on-time element, and maybe seasons which the month may simulate but allow players options on when to start, actual Sim time or game time. The important thing is the pressure of on-time departures and arrivals. Believe me I know and there are many things that influence this. Is it possible to add random real life events that can add pressure such as late fuel truck delivery/passenger medical/ect. Add a skill that helps multi-tasking in aircraft to reduce chance of delay.
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If you are committed to the Hub and Sprocket route can we have shorter schedules 113 days is bit much. Maybe every 15 days allow us to regenerate a route and allow a "rebase" or some other mechanic.
IMO to keep players engaged you want them to make meaningful decisions which means you should not be able to max out the skill tree. You want varied flying to keep players engaged and you want challenges for players to overcome.
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I'd like to echo these comments as I am about to start Fly the Line. I sat with a friend yesterday for a number of hours doing a few flights and such. The two points of being able to "move the hub" more often and not creating a scarce resource on skills mean there are few meaningful decisions and all profiles become the same over time. I guess one can just "create a new profile" for a different hub - but looking at how to create limitations on skill points, or some other financial snowball issue that makes the struggle between finances and health a challenge will be the "game" part for me. I really like the whole setup though and think the struggle between health, job performance, and financial stability are a good triangle to create some tension and hard decisions.
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You said that much better than me as I was focused on the route structure but I do worry about replay ability. Probably sounded like I was bashing the game but I really would like to see it succeed, and be a meaningful competitor to OA or NF
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I came here and registered an account just to say this. I hate programs that require going back to the "hub" after every leg. As of now, this is where APL excels, because it gives you 3 different options:
- Hub legs (always back to the hub after every leg)
- Random legs (A-B, F-J, Y-Z type legs)
- Random continued legs (A-C, C-E, E-B, B-J type legs)
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While I've never flown for the airlines (though have my license since 1996), I know quite a few airlines that will actually have quite a few of their pilots back at their hub by the end of the day. A close friend of mine is one of them. It's quite rare that he would end his "shift" by being somewhere else.
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While I've never flown for the airlines (though have my license since 1996), I know quite a few airlines that will actually have quite a few of their pilots back at their hub by the end of the day. A close friend of mine is one of them. It's quite rare that he would end his "shift" by being somewhere else.
@JMAviation that is definitely true. It depends on what airline you fly for. Actually, my current airline is trying this right now though after close to a year it is slowly failing.
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This will be addressed in a future build - not the next one as it's quite complex to change - but it's coming as I'd like to get this sorted out. I only built it that way as thats what I thought everyone would want. Obviosuly I was rather wrong on that one (!) so leave it with me and I'll get it changed. Feel free to add your ideas. It would need to fit withing the 5 days on, 4 days off loop where possible.
So something like:
Day 1
A (Base) -B
B-CDay 2
C-D
D-E
E-F
F-DDay 3
D-A
A-B
B-C
C-DDay 4
D-E
E-FDay 5
F-G
G-H
H-I
I-A (Base) - or not if you're unluckySomethign like that?
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This will be addressed in a future build - not the next one as it's quite complex to change - but it's coming as I'd like to get this sorted out. I only built it that way as thats what I thought everyone would want. Obviosuly I was rather wrong on that one (!) so leave it with me and I'll get it changed. Feel free to add your ideas. It would need to fit withing the 5 days on, 4 days off loop where possible.
So something like:
Day 1
A (Base) -B
B-CDay 2
C-D
D-E
E-F
F-DDay 3
D-A
A-B
B-C
C-DDay 4
D-E
E-FDay 5
F-G
G-H
H-I
I-A (Base) - or not if you're unluckySomethign like that?
@NeoGeo78 That's spot on.
The only thing I'll add (or more explicitly call out), is that the entire network of routes should be accessible instead of what's currently programmed (as far as I understand it) which is only the hub's routes that you join.
This may mean overnights at other bases or legs that involve other bases where the routes are different from that base, etc.
The thing we're afforded in Flight Sim is the opportunity to truly explore and I'm always of the impression that programs that limit that opportunity are a bit of a step behind.
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Would it be possible to have it on a slider like some of the other options? Something where you can choose the number of destinations before heading back to the hub... or a 3 position slider where the 1st is a true hub/spoke style, 2 is mixed, 3 is like you have above? Just a thought.
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This will be addressed in a future build - not the next one as it's quite complex to change - but it's coming as I'd like to get this sorted out. I only built it that way as thats what I thought everyone would want. Obviosuly I was rather wrong on that one (!) so leave it with me and I'll get it changed. Feel free to add your ideas. It would need to fit withing the 5 days on, 4 days off loop where possible.
So something like:
Day 1
A (Base) -B
B-CDay 2
C-D
D-E
E-F
F-DDay 3
D-A
A-B
B-C
C-DDay 4
D-E
E-FDay 5
F-G
G-H
H-I
I-A (Base) - or not if you're unluckySomethign like that?
@NeoGeo78 Thank You for a quick response. I realize solving the route/scheduling issue is a fairly complex undertaking, as we have an entire department at my airline who does nothing but that lol. So not only does it need to take into account real world procedures, but you have a coding challenge and of course a diverse player base with their own wants.
Understanding that you set out to create a "Short Haul" experience, obviously returning back to the base often is a real thing. I believe your above example where you have in a total of 16 flights with only 3 flights returning back to the same base seems to be a good mix of providing the experience but allowing your core "short haul" experience to remain in place.
Obviously some of the challenge is going to be your Hub (Base A) and how many Spokes ( ex. B-I) you can code and are available for each individual l airline. Some will have more and some will have less.
One thing that might help out is to regenerate your schedule more often/ choose a new base within your chosen airline. You could still require the rebase/schedule regeneration to fall within a geographic area...ie Europe, North America, ect to keep the short haul flavor and tie it to either the completion of a 5, 10, 15 day rotation or as a gameplay mechanic ie promotion. This would allow the player to "commit" to flying their schedule but also allow them the flexibility to try out that new scenery pack they just got lol
What you are attempting to do here is definitely needed by the community. Having played and featured both OnAir and NeoFly on my channel you are attempting to fill a void that I believe is needed. So I appreciate you taking the time to listen and then incorporate that feedback. It is very refreshing.
Thank You
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Once the next build is complete, which shouldn't be too long, I’ll look at the best time to fit this in, ideally sooner rather than later. The plan is to make it optional, so you can choose whether or not to return to your base at the end of each day.
Route scheduling is the most complex part of the system, so I’ve spent additional time cleaning things up in the backend. This will make future improvements easier to implement. There are so many interconnected components that if one thing is wrong, it can be difficult to spot. Getting it right is time-consuming.
From a logic standpoint, the system takes your base ICAO and looks at real-world routes connected to that location to build the schedule. Currently, the final route of each day returns you to base. I still need to work out the best way to handle the final sector so that it doesn't always return to base but instead ends at a valid real-world destination. Your next day's starting ICAO would then be that last destination. In Career Mode, this would also mean you might not be at home after your shift, potentially limiting your options due to crew rest or hotel stays. That part may come later, as what seems like a small change could have significant ripple effects.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your feedback. It’s incredibly valuable.
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A320 Simulations
wrote less than a minute ago
last edited by
#13
Having flown for a little over 2 years for United Express and now Captain on an A320/A321 for now 6 years if there is anything I can help you with in terms of airline pilot life or typical captain issues I deal with please let me know I am happy to help out.I had planned to release a new series with your game this weekend but depending upon what your schedule looks like in terms of builds/updates may delay a bit if you think appropriate as to get the most polished version.
I have included a link to my channel, not that I am a big YT or anything, but if you have a press kit (.png file of your logo, ect) so I can add it to my thumbnail or version updates I can share I would appreciate it
https://youtu.be/B3LxA-AQjso
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@BBoaBrim Thanks for the kind words. Totally appreciate that.
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@A320-Simulations Sorry for the late reply, I missed this one! Would definitely appreciate some input in to some of the airline pilot issues etc. I think next week we're going to set up a small group of customers who can test early versions, provide feedback etc. Hopefully more on that later this week. As for the press kit items - leave that one with me - I'll mention to Just Flight on Monday hen they're back in.
