Elevator trim up input does not increase VS target while in VS mode
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The changelog for v2.00 says the trim controls can be used to change the VS target, but the trim up input doesn't seem to do anything. Tapping it, holding it, doesn't matter, nothing happens. The trim down input works as expected and reduces the VS target.
I'm using SPAD.neXt for my control bindings.
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If you read the Manual you will find that you can map a button to the' 'afterburner' in the sim (MSFS) When pressed this toggles off the AP clutches whilst keeping the AP connected so you don't disturb the selected AP configuration. If you then hand fly using trim or yoke to achieve the desired VS rate, then click the mapped button to toggle on again, the AP clutches will re-engage and the AP will follow that new VS,
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@JFSoapy I know I can do that, but that's not what this thread is about. As per the changelog for v2.00, I should be able to adjust the VS target using elevator trim up/down controls. However, only the trim down control works like it's supposed to.
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This post is deleted!
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I am a bit mystified by V/S mode, I must say, so any feedback in this regard would be most useful. If Pixel of Life is correct, you should be able to select V/S then just use the trims to select the V/S without declutching. Is that how it’s supposed to be? Is that how the real aircraft did it?
It’s not working like that for me at the moment if so. -
@Bearviation
The MSFS control assignment "TOGGLE AFTERBURNER" is used to set the "AP Sync" assignment as an on/off toggle. So press the button, make your datum change, such as change VS rate (either manually with the yoke/stick or with normal elevator trim controls), then press again to engage the clutch (or maybe it's disengaging, but the concept is the same).The MSFS control assignment "SET ELT" is used to set the "AP Sync" assignment as a press and hold function. This is how I use it. So you'd press the button, hold it, make your pitch change or whatever datum change you want, then release that button to engage(disengage?) the clutch and you're now set at that new datum (VS rate for example).
Using the Sync clutch and the 'normal' pitch trim has always worked and it's how I've always used it.
This new setting/feature is supposed to function in that you don't need to use the Sync clutch to change the VS rate but rather the "Autopilot Pitch Selector". Or... at least that's how myself and several others seem to be interrupting it.Of course, I don't know your level of experience with the 146 and the Sync feature, so you'll have to excuse me if I over-explained and you're well aware of all that. If so, then hopefully someone at some point in the future reading this might gain something from it.
You can easily use the search function within the MSFS control page to find those control assignments as well, and of course, make sure to change the filter to show ALL key binds on the left-side menu, not just 'Assigned'. Check page 259 of the v2.0 official JustFlight BAE-146 PDF manual for more control assignments.
I would love to know if there's a control assignment to just toggle VS mode itself, without getting into LVARS and SPADX and all that as I've not delved into it yet. I know you can use the MSFS control assignment "TOGGLE AUTOPILOT FLIGHT LEVEL CHANGE" for engaging/disengaging IAS mode. So maybe there's a simple MSFS control assignment for VS engage/disengage as well.
As for myself, I have the same issue as @JFSoapy and @rondon9897. I've used the Sync feature for hundreds of flights but after several attempts to get this new trim control feature to work, so far I've been unsuccessful. Mind you, I've never actually tried just clicking the button up or down on the centre console... I'll try that and see if that works for me. But really, it's about the control assignment option.
And of course, I've tried this with the AP engaged, and VS selected as the verticle control mode on the AP.
And yeah, @rondon9897, that's how it comes across to me in the patch notes as well. No clue if the real aircraft did it, but I assume it probably did otherwise JF wouldn't have bothered adding it. That's just me assuming though.
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Bottom line:
Pitch hold mode on, SYNC MODE OFF, trim down input: Decreases pitch hold reference, aircraft pitches down if AP is in. Works as expected.
Pitch hold mode on, SYNC MODE OFF, trim up input: Increases pitch hold reference, aircraft pitches up if AP is in. Works as expected.
VS mode on, SYNC MODE OFF, trim down input: Decreases VS target, aircraft decreases climb rate/increases descent rate if AP is in. Works as expected (as described in v2.00 changelog).
VS mode on, SYNC MODE OFF, trim up input: Does nothing. Does not work as expected. Needs to be fixed.
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We have been able to replicate a potential issue when using the new control assignment logic to control the vertical speed when the Autopilot is selected and we have logged it on our internal bugs tracker. We'll investigate this further and make changes in the next update to the 146.
For reference, the V/S mode was added as a sort of 'hack' for users who wanted an alternative way of controlling the vertical speed without using the autopilot SYNC function. In the real 146 with V/S mode selected, you would control the vertical speed using the Autopilot SYNC mode or with the pitch selector on the pedestal.
Mark - Just Flight
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@tgp If you load into a flight on the runway and trigger the 'INCREASE AP PITCH HOLD REFERENCE' control assignment, does the flight director bar move up on the ADI?
I personally use those control assignments every flight in the 146 so I know they do work as intended. I seem to recall they may not animate the pitch switch though.
Mark - Just Flight
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@Mark Hi Mark,
So I've been flying around trying to figure this out for a few flights. Let me first say this could easily be something I'm doing wrong/out of sequence i.e user error.
So what I basically do is, take off, dial in an altitude and arm it and then press VS, YD on and AP.. Then I use the 2 control bindings via a switch on my Alpha to try to alter the climb rate. I can't quite figure out exactly the circumstances but here are my findings.
- As you say, the control bindings do not animate the central pedestal as I thought they would so it's really useful to know that they don't as previously I was partly using this to assess if the bindings were working.
- On first press(es) of VS nothing happens up or down. This is always the case.
- By pressing various things I can get it to work as I would expect and pressing up or down alters the climb rate as expected and as you said. It's not scientific exactly what is pressed in which order to make it work (switching to IAS and back to VS, AP off then on again etc) but something that always seems to "unstick" it is by pressing the "pitch selector on the pedestal" once either up or down unsticks it immediately and it then works as intended. However the next time I want to use VS it often becomes "stuck" again and I need a press of the pitch pedestal button to unstick it.
maybe I'm selecting VS b4 Ap or vice versa or doing something out of sequence??? Using Sync works fine as expected.
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@tgp I've just been reading the FCOM to refresh my memory and VS mode should be disengaged when the pitch switch on the pedestal is moved. The aircraft will then enter PITCH mode and the aircraft's pitch can be controlled via a pitch switch (or MSFS control assignments). It looks like this is correctly simulated when actioning the pitch switch with the mouse, but not when using the control assignments. I've logged that on our internal bugs tracker to investigate further.
In the real aircraft, if you were climbing in VS mode, you would use the autopilot's SYNC facility to decouple the autopilot, adjust the aircraft's vertical speed manually, and then release the SYNC mode at the new vertical speed and the aircraft will continue to climb at that new vertical speed. The VS mode itself is a simple "VS HOLD" type mode and just holds the vertical speed that it was engaged at, so the vertical speed cannot be adjusted unless VS mode is disengaged or decoupled.
Hope that helps.
Mark - Just Flight
