Control Locks not activating Takeoff Config Warning Horn (HUGE safety issue)
Just finished my first couple of flights with the BAe 146. Overall it flies superbly and as someone who both has flown oldschool aircraft IRL (BAe ATP) and also alot of AVRO RJ in P3D it felt very natural and fun because it worked out really well from the get go after just reading a bit in the manual yesterday however I still also need to focus because workload is very high when flying on VATSIM with full ATC and still trying to follow UNABLE RNAV procedures on SID's (mimicing irl ops) and climb profiles etc. Really fun aircraft and great job!
However I discovered one HUGE safety issue with the aircraft. Somehow I must have clicked the yoke handheld microphone when panning around to lineup (I had already done the control check then before lining up) This activated the control locks which I have understood is an IRL thing but activated by a lever on the captains yoke.
However trying to takeoff with this thing ON will according to RW 146/RJ pilots 100% trigger the takeoff config warning. Just as in the ATP we could not push the power levers more than 10-20% forward with this engaged or in the DASH the control lock itself is preventing the levers to be pushed fully forward.
The only way in the 146/RJ that it will prevent you from taking off with this is the takeoff config warning but even though I applied full thrust on the runway with all other parameters such as parking brake, flaps, trim set as it should be it did not give me a single warning that the control lock was engaged.
Again IRL it would definately give you a config warning if you try to takeoff with it. Also I couldnt disengage the control locks either when I eventually became airborne causing a totally uncontrollable aircraft to not only be allowed to depart but also become airborne.
IRL this wouldve never happened so please make sure to patch this so that trying to takeoff with the control locks engaged by mistake from the clickspot does actually trigger a T/O Config Warning.
Thanks for reporting this issue. It will be fixed in the next update.
@martyn Martyn, before you start changing code, make absolutely certain via the 146 FCOM that leaving the control lock in causes a CONFIG warning.
In 3500hrs on the 146/RJ I cannot recall receiving one. Perhaps our procedures were so perfect as to never takeoff with the lock in (:. It would be apparent at 'rotate' that the lock was in but the force to remove it was not that much.
Alas, I never 'preserved' a 146 tech manual but from my ground-school notes, a CONFIG warning was caused by the following:
'The system provides warning if a takeoff is attempted with the aircraft in an unsafe configuration. Warnings will occur if:
Aileron trim is out of position.
Elevator trim is out of position.
Flaps are at 0 or beyond 30.
Airbrake is not in.
Parking brake is on.
Any spoiler is unlocked.
If any of the above conditions exist and any power lever is advanced beyond 90% N1 and the main wheels are on the ground:
CONFIG (Red) will be illuminated on the MWP.
The red alerts will flash.
An intermittent horn will sound. This will not cancel when the alerts are pressed.'
I stand to be corrected, but I've a feeling the control lock isn't part of the CONFIG Warning system.
@toozin Thanks for the additional information, this could well be why this wasn't simulated originally so we'll investigate further.
I managed to obtain a copy of the Bae146 Training Manual which states:
Take off with control column restraint engaged.
The control column restraint system fitted to the left hand column will not restrict rotation on take off if it is inadvertently left engaged.
If the control column restraint is anadvertantly left in, it may be disengaged by either pilot early in the take off run with a short sharp forward movement of the handwheel, or at VR by the handling pilot with a slightly higher than normal rearward force to break out the restraint and rotate the aircraft.
Presumably it was not included in the confiig warning system because it does not prevent rotation.
@galeair Great, thanks for that information. That's something we can simulate.
@galeair My memory isn't failing me - phew! Thanks for that.
@martyn there's absolutely no alert, config warning or otherwise, that's triggered by the column lock being left in. It's a simple mechanical latch on the front of the column. I'm speaking as a 146/RJ Pilot with over 3000hrs on type, and heavy experience as an Engineer on type.
If the crew leave it locked and decide to go flying, there's nothing stopping them. The FCOM even mentions this scenario and suggest the crew lightly push forward to unlock it. This prevents a jolt of pulled back, and instead simply puts weight in the nose wheel.
A guy who's dad is an ex RJ pilot said that taking off with it engaged would trigger the TO Config warning.
Nonetheless it should then be controllable still when moving the controls. When I eventually got airborne due to the trim pushing me airborne I had no control input authority at all. The locks acted like there was a gust lock in place that was unremovable. Back down on the ground after slewing down again I could disengage it by pressing the microphone again.
As long as it's possible to remove it once you notice it's set by mistake that is fine. Right now that does not work when airborne for instance.