Stall Characteristics Broken
-
I'm a real-world pilot, fly a Grumman Traveler, which has very similar performance to a PA28. I'm also rated on a Piper Cherokee 235 and Cessna 172. Simply put; the PA28 flight model needs work and its not fun to fly.
The excuses that the JF team spits out, is disgusting though.
When I initially bought the JF PA28 at release and it was marvelous. Then the first few MSFS patches hit and Warrior was shelved because it was broken. I fly with a yoke, rudder and throttle combo and have no issues with other airplanes, its only been JF and their endless excuses.
My predicament is that it takes JF months to release a patch, then it works for a short period until MSFS releases another patch. Its rather frustrating because this product is sitting more on the shelf than its being flown.
Anways, I've been digging into the configs of the airplane, as per this lengthy post on MSFS forums about exactly the same issue:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/just-flight-warrior-unable-to-stall/441129/24?page=2
It seems like it can be fixed using configuration.Basically from what I've read, there is an issue with how JF configured the stabilator. I'll play around with it and post it here for those that would like a good functional product.
-
@RoosTa I'm not sure I follow you when you are referring to us making "endless excuses".
As I stated in my previous reply, the stall characteristics in our Warriror are consistent with the feedback we have received from the real-world pilots on our testing team, as well as various sources of information we have found online. The forum link that you have posted also shows a video of a Warrior with similar stall characteristics to our aircraft in MSFS. As can be seen through that forum thread, we receive feedback from some users who think the stall isn't accurate, and others who say it is accurate, and therefore, we end up in a tricky situation of potentially "fixing" an issue that half of the user base does not see as an issue in the first place. I'm not saying the flight model in the Warrior is perfect, no flight model in a simulator ever is, and we do have flight model improvements in testing for each of the PA28s that should be released within the next month. You are welcome to attempt to adjust the flight model to suit your preferences in the meantime.
Just to give some background on our product update releases, in 2023 we released over 25 updates/upgrades across the 9 products we have released for MSFS, each update bringing bug fixes as well as new features. We also released 2 complex, high-fidelity aircraft and a traffic program during that time, as well as continuing to work on the many high-fidelity aircraft we have in development.
Unlike previous iitterations of flight simulator, the core simulator is regularly receiving updates which can affect our products, and these updates can sometimes require us to release updates to our products to bring them back in line. The challenge we face is that as we release more products, the more time we have to spend when it comes to updating/upgrading these products, which means the less time we spend on our in-development products which causes products to be delayed. If we're not careful, we could be spending 100% of our time updating/upgrading our already released products and never releasing another product again. This is why we need to carefully plan each update for our products and make sure each update/upgrade is worthwhile of the time that we have to dedicate to it. If an MSFS Sim Update catastrophically breaks one of our products, we will release a small update ASAP to fix it, but otherwise, we wait until we have a significant amount of bugs logged, or a gap in out schedule so that we can work on a worthwhile update.
These aren't excuses, this is an explanation of the situation we find ourselves in. This isn't a situation that is unique to us, there will be many other developers in a similar boat. At the end of the day, we are a very small team and there are only a limited number of hours in the day to get stuff done.
If you have any issues with our products, please feel free to contact Just Flight support via the following link. Any feedback we receive gets logged on our internal bug/feature request trackers, and it will make its way into the next update of the respective product: https://www.justflight.com/support
Mark - Just Flight
-
The comments have been deleted so I can't be sure what the criticism was but I have seen others complain that the stall characteristics of the warrior are too docile. I don't know where these people are getting their expectations from (clearly not from actually flying one IRL) but I have found that after watching a video of someone performing a "falling leaf" stall IRL they get a better understand of how the aircraft actually stalls and realise that the still in the sim is actually pretty accurate!
I would suggest this LewDix video. He's an aviation YouTuber and CFI in Florida with lots of videos in PA28s and C172s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYiSnAN2h4w -
Hello,
Sorry for bumping a topic but I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm having exactly the same problem as the OP with Warrior.I have just over 100 hours in RL on the Warrior II (and similar Archer II) and I'm sorry to say that the slow speed characteristics in the JF Warrior are just not true to life at all. Whilst it is true that the stall in the real Warrior (and indeed all of the tapered wing PA28 family) is quite a benign affair it still does actually stall, without the need for full back trim. In the JF model I run out of pitch authority well before the speed decays below the stall speed, the nose drops and it just mushes downwards at about 60kts. This is not correct, the real one will enter a full stall with some buffet even without full back stick applied.
I have similar issues on landing - which is related since it is, in effect, a low speed manoeuvre. During the flare as the speed decays while in ground effect I essentially run out of pitch authority to continue to hold the nose off and the aircraft just slams the last few feet into the ground. The real aircraft it is perfectly possible to hold the nose off well below 55kts until the main gear smoothly touches down without coming anywhere near the backstop for the yoke. It needs far more up trim than the real one - in fact in the real one you need quite a few rolls of down trim when you slow down and lower the flaps.
Sorry if this reads like a rant - it's not! I really like the JF Warrior model and think it looks fantastic, but as it is a training aircraft I feel it's quite important that things like stalls and slow flight are done right. If these things with the flight model were addressed I think it would go back to being my favourite GA add on again! Is there still an update in the works?
-
Apologies for the belated reply. The updated Warrior flight model is in the hands of our internal testing team who are currently swamped with testing various other products (including the upcoming RJ Professional).
The flight model is progressing through our testing process though and we will be sure to inform everyone once the update is available.
Mark - Just Flight
-
@Mark Thanks for the update Mark, I'll keep waiting.
While I have you here, are there flight models for the various Arrows in testing, as well? Should we expect updates to them at the same time as the Warrior, whenever that percolates through the chain?
-
This post is deleted!
-
@jmarkows At the moment we just have the Warrior flight model in testing as that is what we received the most feedback on from the community.
Once that has been released the plan is to revisit the Arrow, Turbo Arrow and Warrior flight models again once MSFS 2024 releases, as we are hoping that will open up a few more doors in the flight model and allow for some more significant improvements. We'll be sure to share more information on that once we get access to the new simulator and the SDK.
Mark - Just Flight
