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Greaser Landing Possible?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PA-28R Arrow III
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  • G Offline
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    goalski
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    You're absolutely right about these landings. Of all the planes I have in the sim, the PA28 is by far the most difficult to land (for a smooth landing). Even the spitfire is easier for me to land! No matter how gently I place those wheels on the runway, it bounces at least once. I spent a few hours just landing, over and over again, but I bounce pretty much every single time. The plane needs adjustment.

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    • G goalski

      You're absolutely right about these landings. Of all the planes I have in the sim, the PA28 is by far the most difficult to land (for a smooth landing). Even the spitfire is easier for me to land! No matter how gently I place those wheels on the runway, it bounces at least once. I spent a few hours just landing, over and over again, but I bounce pretty much every single time. The plane needs adjustment.

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      captain744
      wrote on last edited by captain744
      #11

      @goalski I had a sneaking suspicion about this. We shall see what any future updates bring 🙂 Although grass landings are much smoother, my landing was soo smooth I though I was still floating from the low wing effect. With an almost head wind of about 15-20 knots!

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        Delta558
        Developer
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        This was not mentioned once during testing. The figures for the suspension compression are accurate and you can see the gear movement from outside.

        I've just spent half an hour at various flap configurations / descent rates / airspeeds, watching from outside and hardly getting a bounce unless I really slam it down fast, all on a concrete runway. There is sometimes a slight shimmy or lurch sideways, but that appears to be the sim's transition from airborne physics to ground physics (a problem since much earlier versions of flight simulator!)

        Just Flight FDE developer

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          Kengou
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          No problems here, in fact I had a real butter one today to the extent I wasn't even sure if I had landed at all. It's certainly possible if you touch down smoothly.

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          • K Kengou

            No problems here, in fact I had a real butter one today to the extent I wasn't even sure if I had landed at all. It's certainly possible if you touch down smoothly.

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            captain744
            wrote on last edited by captain744
            #14

            @Kengou Yep finally cracked it. Was pulling back the power too soon. Requires some power after levelling off until touchdown (As mentioned by RaulKo). Finally! No bounce.

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            • D Delta558

              This was not mentioned once during testing. The figures for the suspension compression are accurate and you can see the gear movement from outside.

              I've just spent half an hour at various flap configurations / descent rates / airspeeds, watching from outside and hardly getting a bounce unless I really slam it down fast, all on a concrete runway. There is sometimes a slight shimmy or lurch sideways, but that appears to be the sim's transition from airborne physics to ground physics (a problem since much earlier versions of flight simulator!)

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              captain744
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              @Delta558 Apricated you testing to confirm. Thanks.

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              • RetiredMan93231R Offline
                RetiredMan93231R Offline
                RetiredMan93231
                wrote on last edited by
                #16

                Here are some new recommended settings for the landing gear that should improve the landing performance...

                https://community.justflight.com/topic/1961/twitchy-rudder-not-just-an-msfs-issue

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                • R RaulKO

                  I've landed without bounce several times but also get to bounce from time to time... I'm not talking about the real deal, but on this particular plane and this sim, I think 75 knots on final to be a little too fast, I prefer to aim for a touch down of 65 knots (with full flaps)... also, pulling the throttle back too early or too rapid can make your V-speed to increase in final, so I recommend to maintain a certain amount of thrust until almost touchdown if you are already in a steady, slow descent rate.

                  There is also the flare, with GA aircraft we shouldn't attempt to do a B737 like flare, it should be more of a slight correction to prepare and soften the touch down... excessive flare normally also results in bounce landing and can trigger stall warning sound on final touch down, which will precipitate the aircraft to the ground with more force, making it to bounce...

                  Hope it helps.

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                  Cristi Neagu
                  wrote on last edited by Cristi Neagu
                  #17

                  @RaulKO said in Greaser Landing Possible?:

                  with GA aircraft we shouldn't attempt to do a B737 like flare

                  Slightly besides the point, but you shouldn't be doing the kind of flare you're thinking of (747 style) with a 737 either 🙂 The 737NGs are pretty slippery planes, so usually you want to fly them onto the runway rather than flaring.

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                  • D Offline
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                    Dr_Gonzo
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    I've had some real nice greasers and some not so nice 'firm' touchdowns, had a silky landing into Leesburg last night, it was beautiful! But not always so.

                    My priority is always getting it down in the touchdown zone, preferably on the 1000ft markers. A nice smooth landing is no good if you had to float for 500ft with a trickle of power on to get there.

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                    • N Offline
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                      N293WK
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I'm still having trouble with this. I've tried with several different power settings on touchdown, many many many times and only pulled off a no-bounce landing like twice.

                      Then I decided to watch youtube videos to see how other, more experienced people were getting good landings. And I couldn't find one. Can someone link a video of a no-bounce landing, or perhaps upload one of their own?

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                      • RetiredMan93231R Offline
                        RetiredMan93231R Offline
                        RetiredMan93231
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #20

                        Assuming you are not flying at max gross weight, try reducing your final approach speed from 75 knots to 70 knots (with full flaps). After crossing the threshold, at about 10 ft. AGL, gently apply back pressure to level off and then smoothly reduce the throttle to idle, then raise the nose and hold it just below the far end of the runway as you slow down and gently settle onto the runway. Continue to hold the nosewheel up as you slow down during the rollout, then gently allow the nosewheel to come down to the runway...

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                        • N N293WK

                          Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I'm still having trouble with this. I've tried with several different power settings on touchdown, many many many times and only pulled off a no-bounce landing like twice.

                          Then I decided to watch youtube videos to see how other, more experienced people were getting good landings. And I couldn't find one. Can someone link a video of a no-bounce landing, or perhaps upload one of their own?

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                          BernieV
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #21

                          @vcapra1 The turn to final was way too soon but the landing was ok.

                          https://youtu.be/xkc1DJlQj2Q

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                            aurel
                            wrote on last edited by aurel
                            #22

                            In VR, I find it almost trivial to grease the landings. It's much easier when you know exactly what the attitude of the aircraft is and where it is in relation to the runway. (I also use a force-feedback yoke with decent travel and linear "sensitivity". The Arrow definitely makes me work harder than the default planes, I need almost the whole range of the yoke when landing, which isn't the case with other aircraft.)

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                            • B BernieV

                              @vcapra1 The turn to final was way too soon but the landing was ok.

                              https://youtu.be/xkc1DJlQj2Q

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                              N293WK
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #23

                              @BernieV What yoke do you use? After about a month of attempts (probably like 3 or 400 landings) with various sensitivity settings, approach speeds, and techniques, I still bounce like 99% of the time. I'm using the Honeycomb alpha and can land other GA planes (152, 172, etc) without bounce with ease.

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                              • N N293WK

                                @BernieV What yoke do you use? After about a month of attempts (probably like 3 or 400 landings) with various sensitivity settings, approach speeds, and techniques, I still bounce like 99% of the time. I'm using the Honeycomb alpha and can land other GA planes (152, 172, etc) without bounce with ease.

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                                BernieV
                                wrote on last edited by BernieV
                                #24

                                @vcapra1 I use a Saitek yoke, throttle/rpm/mixture, and rudder peddles. I also use three monitors driven by an Nvidia RTX 3080. The image on the side monitors becomes more distorted the further from center you go, but they help considerably during landing by providing peripheral cues.

                                To be honest, even with 25 years flying an Arrow, I still get surprised at times when I touch down indicating I was not where I thought I was relative to the runway. Those tend to be "firm" and "flat" (all three gear touching down at the same time more or less) arrivals. The lighter the plane, the harder it is to grease a landing IMHO.

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                                • B BernieV

                                  @vcapra1 I use a Saitek yoke, throttle/rpm/mixture, and rudder peddles. I also use three monitors driven by an Nvidia RTX 3080. The image on the side monitors becomes more distorted the further from center you go, but they help considerably during landing by providing peripheral cues.

                                  To be honest, even with 25 years flying an Arrow, I still get surprised at times when I touch down indicating I was not where I thought I was relative to the runway. Those tend to be "firm" and "flat" (all three gear touching down at the same time more or less) arrivals. The lighter the plane, the harder it is to grease a landing IMHO.

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                                  BernieV
                                  wrote on last edited by BernieV
                                  #25

                                  As you begin to flare, close the throttle and shift your focus to the end of the runway. Pitch to keep the nose of the aircraft ever so slightly above the end of the runway. Keep the center line under your right foot. As the airspeed slows to the bottom of the white arc you will settle onto the runway. Hold the nosewheel off. As AirSpeed continues to diminish, the nose wheel will settle onto the runway.

                                  This is the sight picture you're looking for right before the mains touchdown.

                                  Screenshot_20210616-131700_Gallery.jpg

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                                  • B BernieV

                                    As you begin to flare, close the throttle and shift your focus to the end of the runway. Pitch to keep the nose of the aircraft ever so slightly above the end of the runway. Keep the center line under your right foot. As the airspeed slows to the bottom of the white arc you will settle onto the runway. Hold the nosewheel off. As AirSpeed continues to diminish, the nose wheel will settle onto the runway.

                                    This is the sight picture you're looking for right before the mains touchdown.

                                    Screenshot_20210616-131700_Gallery.jpg

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                                    N293WK
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #26

                                    @BernieV Thanks, I will continue to try 🙂 I've noticed that if I release back pressure the instant I contact the ground, it reduces or removes the bounce, but that usually ends up slamming the nose wheel into the ground. I suppose there is a balance somewhere between the two that I need to find

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