Greaser Landing Possible?
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I've landed without bounce several times but also get to bounce from time to time... I'm not talking about the real deal, but on this particular plane and this sim, I think 75 knots on final to be a little too fast, I prefer to aim for a touch down of 65 knots (with full flaps)... also, pulling the throttle back too early or too rapid can make your V-speed to increase in final, so I recommend to maintain a certain amount of thrust until almost touchdown if you are already in a steady, slow descent rate.
There is also the flare, with GA aircraft we shouldn't attempt to do a B737 like flare, it should be more of a slight correction to prepare and soften the touch down... excessive flare normally also results in bounce landing and can trigger stall warning sound on final touch down, which will precipitate the aircraft to the ground with more force, making it to bounce...
Hope it helps.
@RaulKO said in Greaser Landing Possible?:
... so I recommend to maintain a certain amount of thrust until almost touchdown if you are already in a steady, slow descent rate.
That's what works best for me - if I get it right, that is
. If you get it right there's a little squeak (on tarmac/asphalt). For some reason I seem to be less likely to bounce on grass.EDIT: Using the YOKO+ yoke.
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Im using the Honeycomb yoke. Im guessing you have the Yoko Yoke?
I might try -10 sensitivity see if it makes any difference.@captain744 said in Greaser Landing Possible?:
Im using the Honeycomb yoke. Im guessing you have the Yoko Yoke?
I might try -10 sensitivity see if it makes any difference.I have an Alpha on the shelf but using the Brunner cls-e mk2 as primary yoke.
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I've landed without bounce several times but also get to bounce from time to time... I'm not talking about the real deal, but on this particular plane and this sim, I think 75 knots on final to be a little too fast, I prefer to aim for a touch down of 65 knots (with full flaps)... also, pulling the throttle back too early or too rapid can make your V-speed to increase in final, so I recommend to maintain a certain amount of thrust until almost touchdown if you are already in a steady, slow descent rate.
There is also the flare, with GA aircraft we shouldn't attempt to do a B737 like flare, it should be more of a slight correction to prepare and soften the touch down... excessive flare normally also results in bounce landing and can trigger stall warning sound on final touch down, which will precipitate the aircraft to the ground with more force, making it to bounce...
Hope it helps.
@RaulKO Thanks for your help and pointers. Will practice some more with those tips in mind.
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You're absolutely right about these landings. Of all the planes I have in the sim, the PA28 is by far the most difficult to land (for a smooth landing). Even the spitfire is easier for me to land! No matter how gently I place those wheels on the runway, it bounces at least once. I spent a few hours just landing, over and over again, but I bounce pretty much every single time. The plane needs adjustment.
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You're absolutely right about these landings. Of all the planes I have in the sim, the PA28 is by far the most difficult to land (for a smooth landing). Even the spitfire is easier for me to land! No matter how gently I place those wheels on the runway, it bounces at least once. I spent a few hours just landing, over and over again, but I bounce pretty much every single time. The plane needs adjustment.
@goalski I had a sneaking suspicion about this. We shall see what any future updates bring
Although grass landings are much smoother, my landing was soo smooth I though I was still floating from the low wing effect. With an almost head wind of about 15-20 knots! -
This was not mentioned once during testing. The figures for the suspension compression are accurate and you can see the gear movement from outside.
I've just spent half an hour at various flap configurations / descent rates / airspeeds, watching from outside and hardly getting a bounce unless I really slam it down fast, all on a concrete runway. There is sometimes a slight shimmy or lurch sideways, but that appears to be the sim's transition from airborne physics to ground physics (a problem since much earlier versions of flight simulator!)
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No problems here, in fact I had a real butter one today to the extent I wasn't even sure if I had landed at all. It's certainly possible if you touch down smoothly.
@Kengou Yep finally cracked it. Was pulling back the power too soon. Requires some power after levelling off until touchdown (As mentioned by RaulKo). Finally! No bounce.
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This was not mentioned once during testing. The figures for the suspension compression are accurate and you can see the gear movement from outside.
I've just spent half an hour at various flap configurations / descent rates / airspeeds, watching from outside and hardly getting a bounce unless I really slam it down fast, all on a concrete runway. There is sometimes a slight shimmy or lurch sideways, but that appears to be the sim's transition from airborne physics to ground physics (a problem since much earlier versions of flight simulator!)
@Delta558 Apricated you testing to confirm. Thanks.
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Here are some new recommended settings for the landing gear that should improve the landing performance...
https://community.justflight.com/topic/1961/twitchy-rudder-not-just-an-msfs-issue
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I've landed without bounce several times but also get to bounce from time to time... I'm not talking about the real deal, but on this particular plane and this sim, I think 75 knots on final to be a little too fast, I prefer to aim for a touch down of 65 knots (with full flaps)... also, pulling the throttle back too early or too rapid can make your V-speed to increase in final, so I recommend to maintain a certain amount of thrust until almost touchdown if you are already in a steady, slow descent rate.
There is also the flare, with GA aircraft we shouldn't attempt to do a B737 like flare, it should be more of a slight correction to prepare and soften the touch down... excessive flare normally also results in bounce landing and can trigger stall warning sound on final touch down, which will precipitate the aircraft to the ground with more force, making it to bounce...
Hope it helps.
@RaulKO said in Greaser Landing Possible?:
with GA aircraft we shouldn't attempt to do a B737 like flare
Slightly besides the point, but you shouldn't be doing the kind of flare you're thinking of (747 style) with a 737 either
The 737NGs are pretty slippery planes, so usually you want to fly them onto the runway rather than flaring. -
I've had some real nice greasers and some not so nice 'firm' touchdowns, had a silky landing into Leesburg last night, it was beautiful! But not always so.
My priority is always getting it down in the touchdown zone, preferably on the 1000ft markers. A nice smooth landing is no good if you had to float for 500ft with a trickle of power on to get there.
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Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I'm still having trouble with this. I've tried with several different power settings on touchdown, many many many times and only pulled off a no-bounce landing like twice.
Then I decided to watch youtube videos to see how other, more experienced people were getting good landings. And I couldn't find one. Can someone link a video of a no-bounce landing, or perhaps upload one of their own?
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Assuming you are not flying at max gross weight, try reducing your final approach speed from 75 knots to 70 knots (with full flaps). After crossing the threshold, at about 10 ft. AGL, gently apply back pressure to level off and then smoothly reduce the throttle to idle, then raise the nose and hold it just below the far end of the runway as you slow down and gently settle onto the runway. Continue to hold the nosewheel up as you slow down during the rollout, then gently allow the nosewheel to come down to the runway...
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Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I'm still having trouble with this. I've tried with several different power settings on touchdown, many many many times and only pulled off a no-bounce landing like twice.
Then I decided to watch youtube videos to see how other, more experienced people were getting good landings. And I couldn't find one. Can someone link a video of a no-bounce landing, or perhaps upload one of their own?
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In VR, I find it almost trivial to grease the landings. It's much easier when you know exactly what the attitude of the aircraft is and where it is in relation to the runway. (I also use a force-feedback yoke with decent travel and linear "sensitivity". The Arrow definitely makes me work harder than the default planes, I need almost the whole range of the yoke when landing, which isn't the case with other aircraft.)
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@vcapra1 The turn to final was way too soon but the landing was ok.
https://youtu.be/xkc1DJlQj2Q
@BernieV What yoke do you use? After about a month of attempts (probably like 3 or 400 landings) with various sensitivity settings, approach speeds, and techniques, I still bounce like 99% of the time. I'm using the Honeycomb alpha and can land other GA planes (152, 172, etc) without bounce with ease.
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@BernieV What yoke do you use? After about a month of attempts (probably like 3 or 400 landings) with various sensitivity settings, approach speeds, and techniques, I still bounce like 99% of the time. I'm using the Honeycomb alpha and can land other GA planes (152, 172, etc) without bounce with ease.
@vcapra1 I use a Saitek yoke, throttle/rpm/mixture, and rudder peddles. I also use three monitors driven by an Nvidia RTX 3080. The image on the side monitors becomes more distorted the further from center you go, but they help considerably during landing by providing peripheral cues.
To be honest, even with 25 years flying an Arrow, I still get surprised at times when I touch down indicating I was not where I thought I was relative to the runway. Those tend to be "firm" and "flat" (all three gear touching down at the same time more or less) arrivals. The lighter the plane, the harder it is to grease a landing IMHO.
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@vcapra1 I use a Saitek yoke, throttle/rpm/mixture, and rudder peddles. I also use three monitors driven by an Nvidia RTX 3080. The image on the side monitors becomes more distorted the further from center you go, but they help considerably during landing by providing peripheral cues.
To be honest, even with 25 years flying an Arrow, I still get surprised at times when I touch down indicating I was not where I thought I was relative to the runway. Those tend to be "firm" and "flat" (all three gear touching down at the same time more or less) arrivals. The lighter the plane, the harder it is to grease a landing IMHO.
As you begin to flare, close the throttle and shift your focus to the end of the runway. Pitch to keep the nose of the aircraft ever so slightly above the end of the runway. Keep the center line under your right foot. As the airspeed slows to the bottom of the white arc you will settle onto the runway. Hold the nosewheel off. As AirSpeed continues to diminish, the nose wheel will settle onto the runway.
This is the sight picture you're looking for right before the mains touchdown.
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As you begin to flare, close the throttle and shift your focus to the end of the runway. Pitch to keep the nose of the aircraft ever so slightly above the end of the runway. Keep the center line under your right foot. As the airspeed slows to the bottom of the white arc you will settle onto the runway. Hold the nosewheel off. As AirSpeed continues to diminish, the nose wheel will settle onto the runway.
This is the sight picture you're looking for right before the mains touchdown.
@BernieV Thanks, I will continue to try
I've noticed that if I release back pressure the instant I contact the ground, it reduces or removes the bounce, but that usually ends up slamming the nose wheel into the ground. I suppose there is a balance somewhere between the two that I need to find
