Weird behaviou at rolling... Just before takeoff.
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@sdvpilot said in Weird behaviou at rolling... Just before takeoff.:
t a skid but a sudden yaw left or right just reaching takeoff speed on some but not on every takeoff with no significant crosswind. Don't know what the cause might be but it was not always that way until one of the latest upd
Exactly @sdvpilot! Although Leonard doesn't know how to read, you understood the issue.
@ViniciusQdrs it sure keeps you on your toes. Pun intended.
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I have the same issue. It doesn’t matter how gently I feed in the power, or how dainty I am with rudder input. I hold the line perfectly well until about 60 knots, then it’s like getting a sudden puncture. Probably affects 90% of takeoffs. And, yes, I’m set to “Modern”.
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For me it's single most annoying problem with this otherwise beautiful plane. Hope develpoers are looking for some solution here.
I don't see any such problems with other planes, default or made by other parties, so probably it can be solved, even if a little artificially.
Of course I use "modern" flight model. -
I recommend using the following mod to the flight_model.cfg file to reduce this problem...
[FLIGHT_TUNING]
yaw_stability =1.0 ;0.1 -
The yaw_stability suggestion above may help, it may not. I would strongly advise only trying it IF you already have the problem mentioned above. I have just tried it and confirmed my previous findings with a couple of aircraft - for me, it leaves the aircraft virtually uncontrollable in yaw when on the ground.
The stability scalars appear to work in reverse to 'common sense' - the SDK specifically suggests starting at 0.1, the default light aircraft in the sim (C152, 172, Cap10C) have a setting of 0.25 and, when I initially started working in this sim I rather naively expected scalars to be set to 1.0 as default (i.e.that setting not adjusting anything, moving away from it in either direction would increase or decrease the effect). With those stability scalars set to 1.0, aircraft were uncontrollable, so from practical experience I find that increasing that scalar has the effect of making the aircraft uncontrollable.
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The yaw_stability suggestion above may help, it may not. I would strongly advise only trying it IF you already have the problem mentioned above. I have just tried it and confirmed my previous findings with a couple of aircraft - for me, it leaves the aircraft virtually uncontrollable in yaw when on the ground.
The stability scalars appear to work in reverse to 'common sense' - the SDK specifically suggests starting at 0.1, the default light aircraft in the sim (C152, 172, Cap10C) have a setting of 0.25 and, when I initially started working in this sim I rather naively expected scalars to be set to 1.0 as default (i.e.that setting not adjusting anything, moving away from it in either direction would increase or decrease the effect). With those stability scalars set to 1.0, aircraft were uncontrollable, so from practical experience I find that increasing that scalar has the effect of making the aircraft uncontrollable.
@Delta558 Do you have any idea why this problem suddenly appeared following one of the recent updates either 0.4 or 0.5? Also the pitch stability is pretty bad. Excessive rates of climb and decent with very small pitch change. Very difficult to climb at constant rate do to pitch oscillation. Yet difficult to achieve a full stall landing without running out of elevator authority and dropping the nose.
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Actually I don't - as I think I mentioned elsewhere, it's very difficult to track down a problem that I don't see myself and which has not been reported in extensive testing but is obviously affecting a few users. There have been adjustments made to try and alleviate some of the core sim's awful ground handling and transition to airborne, but nothing that stands out as "this will cause a sudden yaw", it's generally been rebalancing rather than introducing anything new.
That's also the first anybody has mentioned to me about pitch stability or oscillation, as well. It's actually been remarked how easy it is to trim the aircraft, are you trimming for the climb or just using aft pressure on your controller? (and have you set the control forces as shown previously?)
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Actually I don't - as I think I mentioned elsewhere, it's very difficult to track down a problem that I don't see myself and which has not been reported in extensive testing but is obviously affecting a few users. There have been adjustments made to try and alleviate some of the core sim's awful ground handling and transition to airborne, but nothing that stands out as "this will cause a sudden yaw", it's generally been rebalancing rather than introducing anything new.
That's also the first anybody has mentioned to me about pitch stability or oscillation, as well. It's actually been remarked how easy it is to trim the aircraft, are you trimming for the climb or just using aft pressure on your controller? (and have you set the control forces as shown previously?)
@Delta558 Yes I do always attempt to trim but in a climb it is almost impossible because with hands off the nose will rise slowing descent and then it will fall increasing descent. I just can't recall the term for this kind of oscillation. Please tell me about setting control forces because I have done nothing of the sort.
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Sensitivity - 0%
Sensitivity + 0%
Dead Zone 1%
Neutral 0%
Extremity Dead Zone 0%
Reactivity 100%You can set up a profile for these, use them for all three primary axes as that is the settings the aircraft was developed with.
@Delta558 Oh yes I do remember doing that but I will check it again. Except for the ground handling issues and sudden excessive yaw the aircraft feels very realistic on takeoff which really impressed me from the beginning. It also handles well straight and level. I can get it trimmed fairly well in a descent but cruise climb would bust a check ride. It is really hard to understand how performance can very so much from one user to another.
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@Delta558 Yes I do always attempt to trim but in a climb it is almost impossible because with hands off the nose will rise slowing descent and then it will fall increasing descent. I just can't recall the term for this kind of oscillation. Please tell me about setting control forces because I have done nothing of the sort.
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@ViniciusQdrs Yes not a skid but a sudden yaw left or right just reaching takeoff speed on some but not on every takeoff with no significant crosswind. Don't know what the cause might be but it was not always that way until one of the latest updates. It is like a sudden wind gust hitting the vertical stabilizer just when you leave the ground.
@sdvpilot said in Weird behaviou at rolling... Just before takeoff.:
@ViniciusQdrs Yes not a skid but a sudden yaw left or right just reaching takeoff speed on some but not on every takeoff with no significant crosswind. Don't know what the cause might be but it was not always that way until one of the latest updates. It is like a sudden wind gust hitting the vertical stabilizer just when you leave the ground.
I seem to be experiencing this as well.
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There is one thing I can't understand. In flight-model.cfg for c172 moments of inertia are 3 times grater than in case of arrow - but both planes have similar mass. Is such a difference really possible or maybe default planes have this paramer tuned up to get more stable behaviour? Am I missing something here?
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These videos shows the "bug"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_VErEHjZXY - this one shows perfectly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PEfNZGwh8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOf_b6tonjs -
These videos shows the "bug"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_VErEHjZXY - this one shows perfectly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PEfNZGwh8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOf_b6tonjs@ViniciusQdrs And that first video - I have seen that behaviour in default aircraft, I actually have not seen it to anywhere near that extent in the Arrow except for when I adjusted the yaw stability setting to =1 (as recommended above).
It is a problem with the sim.
The weather builds the crosswind effect from nothing when stationary to full effect at about 50kts. Unfortunately, you are also entering the transition period in this aircraft between the sim's ground handling and airborne handling, which also deal with weather seemingly differently. There is a lot going on in the core sim at around that speed.A quick search of the MSFS forums throws up thread after thread about this, virtually every aircraft is affected by it (some say not the airliners, others say even they are). Until the core sim is sorted, anything we try and do is going to be at best a botched job that may have detrimental effects elsewhere.
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@ViniciusQdrs And that first video - I have seen that behaviour in default aircraft, I actually have not seen it to anywhere near that extent in the Arrow except for when I adjusted the yaw stability setting to =1 (as recommended above).
It is a problem with the sim.
The weather builds the crosswind effect from nothing when stationary to full effect at about 50kts. Unfortunately, you are also entering the transition period in this aircraft between the sim's ground handling and airborne handling, which also deal with weather seemingly differently. There is a lot going on in the core sim at around that speed.A quick search of the MSFS forums throws up thread after thread about this, virtually every aircraft is affected by it (some say not the airliners, others say even they are). Until the core sim is sorted, anything we try and do is going to be at best a botched job that may have detrimental effects elsewhere.
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@ViniciusQdrs And that first video - I have seen that behaviour in default aircraft, I actually have not seen it to anywhere near that extent in the Arrow except for when I adjusted the yaw stability setting to =1 (as recommended above).
It is a problem with the sim.
The weather builds the crosswind effect from nothing when stationary to full effect at about 50kts. Unfortunately, you are also entering the transition period in this aircraft between the sim's ground handling and airborne handling, which also deal with weather seemingly differently. There is a lot going on in the core sim at around that speed.A quick search of the MSFS forums throws up thread after thread about this, virtually every aircraft is affected by it (some say not the airliners, others say even they are). Until the core sim is sorted, anything we try and do is going to be at best a botched job that may have detrimental effects elsewhere.
@Delta558 I think it is better with sensitivity settings you recommended, but still you cannot stay on the ground any moment longer than nesessary. I tried also yaw stability set to 0.05 and I think it helps, but i did only few takeoffs with this setting yet, so I have to do more testing. It was ok, but maybe wheather was too mild.
