Bad runway performance
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The plane uses a lot of runway to take off, like if it accelerated really slow, almost using the whole runway on intl airports even though I have the TMS and speed bugs set correctly and let the TMS take control on TO mode. Is this working as intended or am I doing something wrong? Weights also look good
@itznekitsu How are you operating the Thrust Levers? Even with the TMS operating, it's up to the Pilots to advance the Thrust Levers towards the required Power. Not just pressing T/O and letting the TMS trim the Thrust, this will take a long time and may very well not achieve the required Thrust.
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Hello,
I did yesterday some testing with the 146-300 fully loaded at LFMH that has a runway of 2300 meters or 7500 feet. The real 146-300 has a minimum takeoff speed of 125 knots and need a 1500 meter to takeoff, 1200 meters to land.
With the just flight 146-300 at flaps 18 the takeoff speed is around 140.
At flaps 24 around 130 knots
At flaps 30 is the takeoff speed 125 knots.
flaps 33 will give a waring sound when pressing the takeoff config button and when departing with flaps 33.So fully loaded at LFMH with a runway of 2300m/7500f at flaps 18 and 24 i cant get enough speed at the end of the runway. to was set at 93 procent, levers in correct position.
At flaps 30 i just could reach the min takeoff speed of 125 knots at the very end of the runway and needed to pullup very carefully or i would stall the plane. so if i needed to clime fast it would not be possible.Yesterday i also departed at DABT with a runway of around 3000 meters and also there i needed the full runway. (fully loaded)
If you set the temp in the TMS beween 7 and 10 degrees Celsius then you will get the maximum takeoff trust of 94.2, so best to set your temp always between 7 and 10 degrees.
This plane is made for shorter runways but it struggle a bit in this.
I need to say that this is a really great, fun and nice plane to fly and it is really my favorite plane in the simulator so far but i miss some takeoff power.
Have a nice day all,
Greetings,
WITTEBOLS PRODUCTIONS -
I have had the same experience. Yesterday I was at Lake Tahoe Airport (KTVL) with my BAe-146. With flaps 18 I didn't make it on the 2600m runway. With flaps 30 I just about made it. Good thing there is a lake after the runway and no trees.
I hardly manage to take off without a stall warning. The BAe is already a sensitive machine. -
I find this thread fascinating... When I fly from a "major" intl airport I just leave it on 18 and while it may go slightly long it's never a significant concern. On shorter departures - LOWI/EGNT I will always set 24 and it seems to be just fine. I do always make sure I hold on the brakes until I get the callout for TO thrust achieved - if I don't then I can have problems.
My recurring issue is almost the opposite. With 24 set (even with 18 sometimes) I often find that the nosewheel starts to lift at or even just before V1 and I end up pushing forwards to make sure I have enough speed to climb safely. In fact when I remember, after setting the CG from EFB I will add nose down myself in which case it sticks till about Vr.
Regardless, I find this aircraft so engaging it's a joy to fly....
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Hello,
I did yesterday some testing with the 146-300 fully loaded at LFMH that has a runway of 2300 meters or 7500 feet. The real 146-300 has a minimum takeoff speed of 125 knots and need a 1500 meter to takeoff, 1200 meters to land.
With the just flight 146-300 at flaps 18 the takeoff speed is around 140.
At flaps 24 around 130 knots
At flaps 30 is the takeoff speed 125 knots.
flaps 33 will give a waring sound when pressing the takeoff config button and when departing with flaps 33.So fully loaded at LFMH with a runway of 2300m/7500f at flaps 18 and 24 i cant get enough speed at the end of the runway. to was set at 93 procent, levers in correct position.
At flaps 30 i just could reach the min takeoff speed of 125 knots at the very end of the runway and needed to pullup very carefully or i would stall the plane. so if i needed to clime fast it would not be possible.Yesterday i also departed at DABT with a runway of around 3000 meters and also there i needed the full runway. (fully loaded)
If you set the temp in the TMS beween 7 and 10 degrees Celsius then you will get the maximum takeoff trust of 94.2, so best to set your temp always between 7 and 10 degrees.
This plane is made for shorter runways but it struggle a bit in this.
I need to say that this is a really great, fun and nice plane to fly and it is really my favorite plane in the simulator so far but i miss some takeoff power.
Have a nice day all,
Greetings,
WITTEBOLS PRODUCTIONS -
I find this thread fascinating... When I fly from a "major" intl airport I just leave it on 18 and while it may go slightly long it's never a significant concern. On shorter departures - LOWI/EGNT I will always set 24 and it seems to be just fine. I do always make sure I hold on the brakes until I get the callout for TO thrust achieved - if I don't then I can have problems.
My recurring issue is almost the opposite. With 24 set (even with 18 sometimes) I often find that the nosewheel starts to lift at or even just before V1 and I end up pushing forwards to make sure I have enough speed to climb safely. In fact when I remember, after setting the CG from EFB I will add nose down myself in which case it sticks till about Vr.
Regardless, I find this aircraft so engaging it's a joy to fly....
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Nice to see the replies here with different experiences.
I also hold the brakes until i get the call of max trust but sometimes i don't get them.
Maybe i just do something wrong.
This is a very interesting aircraft, that's why i like to fly it.
I will do some more testing the coming days/weeks and will come back here to share it.Happy flying,
Wittebols Productions -
Take-off and climb performance is certainly a challenge in the 146, particularly in hot and/or high conditions, especially if you're operating at MTOW or close to it. We are very close to the real-world performance figures so I think you're probably seeing realistic behaviour here.
The two airports that you mention as having problems at are LFMH at an elevation of 1300 feet, and DABT at an elevation of 2700 feet. The -300 specification for runway take-off length is at standard temperature and pressure, meaning sea level at 15 degrees C, so it’s not appropriate to expect a fully-loaded -300 to take off within 5000 feet at an elevation of 2700 feet. At STP at a short-runway airport such as London City EGLC with a runway of 4900 feet, the fully-loaded -300 will take off before the end of the runway at flaps 18/125kts, and even sooner at flaps 24/120kts.
140kts is a high take-off speed for the 146 and suggests it's being operated at close to limits. For example I've just had a VR of 138kts in the 146-300QT at close to MTOW, 5000ft ASL and 28c OAT.
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Take-off and climb performance is certainly a challenge in the 146, particularly in hot and/or high conditions, especially if you're operating at MTOW or close to it. We are very close to the real-world performance figures so I think you're probably seeing realistic behaviour here.
The two airports that you mention as having problems at are LFMH at an elevation of 1300 feet, and DABT at an elevation of 2700 feet. The -300 specification for runway take-off length is at standard temperature and pressure, meaning sea level at 15 degrees C, so it’s not appropriate to expect a fully-loaded -300 to take off within 5000 feet at an elevation of 2700 feet. At STP at a short-runway airport such as London City EGLC with a runway of 4900 feet, the fully-loaded -300 will take off before the end of the runway at flaps 18/125kts, and even sooner at flaps 24/120kts.
140kts is a high take-off speed for the 146 and suggests it's being operated at close to limits. For example I've just had a VR of 138kts in the 146-300QT at close to MTOW, 5000ft ASL and 28c OAT.
@martyn
Hello Martyn,
thanks for the clarification. I haven't been in flight buisiness that long. I didn't realize that altitude had such a big effect on engine performance. I learned something again there.
After all, the airfield where I had problems with the runway length (KTVL) is at 6200 ft. No wonder then.
Thank you very much. -
Take-off and climb performance is certainly a challenge in the 146, particularly in hot and/or high conditions, especially if you're operating at MTOW or close to it. We are very close to the real-world performance figures so I think you're probably seeing realistic behaviour here.
The two airports that you mention as having problems at are LFMH at an elevation of 1300 feet, and DABT at an elevation of 2700 feet. The -300 specification for runway take-off length is at standard temperature and pressure, meaning sea level at 15 degrees C, so it’s not appropriate to expect a fully-loaded -300 to take off within 5000 feet at an elevation of 2700 feet. At STP at a short-runway airport such as London City EGLC with a runway of 4900 feet, the fully-loaded -300 will take off before the end of the runway at flaps 18/125kts, and even sooner at flaps 24/120kts.
140kts is a high take-off speed for the 146 and suggests it's being operated at close to limits. For example I've just had a VR of 138kts in the 146-300QT at close to MTOW, 5000ft ASL and 28c OAT.
@martyn Thank you very much Martyn!
I really like the way you explained it.I like the planes but also the feedback from the staff on the forums.
Kind regards,
Davy Wittebols
WITTEBOLS PRODUCTIONS
