RJ85/100 FO here with some suggestions
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I downloaded the BAe 146 a few days ago and have been enjoying it so far. I've never flown the original 146 but currently fly the RJ85/100 and while I understand they are not the same plane, they are very similar in systems. I wanted to list some... discrepancies between the 146 and the RJ, while I may be wrong, I only hope to help.
Starting from the Overhead Panel:
GND IGN: should be set to A on odd days, B on even days, BOTH during high altitude airports and always during night time
DC PUMP: this is a spring loaded rocker switch, it should return to middle OFF position when let go from ON, unless it is locked in BATT. This does NOT pressurise the yellow system, it only pressurises the brake accumulator and takes about 30 seconds to charge from empty to full (in the sim this switch is not spring loaded, and it incorrectly pressurises the yellow system)
AC PUMP: this pressurises the yellow system almost instantly and should be in the AUTO position as an after engine start checklist item (in the sim it is set to ON by default instead of AUTO, but this might a variable SOP) also, this pump is very loud both in the flight deck and pax cabin, much louder than in the sim
PTU: seems to be modelled mostly correctly, however when using the PTU you should see dips of about 1000 PSI with use such as using the airbrake, or testing the ANTI SKID FAULT on the GRND TEST PANEL (the dips are not modelled) you obviously wont see these dips if the engine hydraulic pumps are on, this is also much louder in real life than in the sim and even causes the plane to shudder when lift spoilers are tested
EXT AC: this switch should be placed to OFF before requesting ground crew to disconnect the external power unit. (in the sim it is left in its middle position when the aircraft is ready to go)
CONT IGN: this is normally left at off position during every phase of flight, some exceptions include gusty take offs, heavy rain, or turbulence (in sim it is left at ON)
PRESSURIZATION: while one of the aircraft we fly has a very similar system, it is not the exact same so I hesitate to comment on this. However I suspect that this is modelled very incorrectly. In the RJ when you adjust the BARO, you move the entire circular altitude card. (in the sim when you adjust the BARO, you instead move the small window) I will make an example of how it is in real life, vs how it is modelled in the sim:
REAL LIFE: Cruise Altitude FL250> I set the ALT SET so the arrow points at 25 in the inner circle, I also make sure the BARO is set to 1013 since I will cruise at a Flight Level. Now I'm preparing to descend to an airport with an elevation of 0 so I set the ALT SET so the arrow points to 0 on the outer circle. As I approach I am informed that the QNH is 1030. Now I adjust the BARO from 1013 to 1030 and as I do so the ENTIRE altitude card rotates anti-clockwise. The arrow did not move but since the card moved anti-clockwise the arrow is no longer pointing to 0 it is now pointing to approximately 700. Now I must make the correction and turn the ALT SET arrow so it is pointing to the new 0.
IN THE SIM: Cruise Altitude FL250> I set the ALT SET so the arrow points at 25 in the inner circle, I also make sure the BARO is set to 1013 since I will cruise at a Flight Level. Now I'm preparing to descend to an airport with an elevation of 0 so I set the ALT SET so the arrow points to 0 on the outer circle. As I approach I am informed that the QNH is 1030. Now I adjust the BARO from 1013 to 1030, as I do so only the SMALL WINDOW moves, and as such the arrow remains at 0, no further action is required. This seems incorrect as it is in fact the motion of the ALT SET arrow that activates changes to the pressurisation.NO SMKG: this should be set to ON as default when the aircraft is powered, if it is left on auto the no smoking lights will turn off when the gear is up. (in sim it is left on AUTO)
SILL LIGHT: this should be illuminating the sill (in sim it is illuminating the yoke) if you turn your sill light to face the yoke like it is in the sim, you are going to dazzle the other pilot from its brightness
LAP LIGHT: this should used to illuminate either your lap or your yoke to see approach plates or anything you have on the yoke clip
Again the above is true to the RJ and may be false for the 146. If I see anything else I will post more. I can also make small videos of the RJ's systems if need be with my cellphone. I'm also aware that a Just Flight RJ is coming in the future, I would love to help out!
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Having waited for MSFS version instead of going with the X-plane version I have to say, regrettably, that I am a little disappointed in the soundscape of this addon though I may have been spoiled a little by XPRealistic's excellent additions during my trial of the Xplane 11 version of this jet. Everything is just so quiet! Well...except from those fire alarms!
That aside, great job. Absolutely loving it so far! What a beauty
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@rj2489
I was hoping to get some insight from a pilot who has flown this plane, thank you very much.
I watched an old video of a 146 flight and noticed that pilot descended from cruise in IAS mode. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you descend and what type of ‘gates’ did you use in regards to altitudes, airspeeds and distances.
Thanks again -
@lancealotg So I'm not sure how it is done on the 146 because on the RJ we have a TRP and autothrottle instead of the TMS. However on the RJ the descent procedure is Seatbelts ON > Taxi Lights ON > LVL CHG engage. We descend at 270 kts, so if you are cruising at ECON cruise M 0.67 you change over to kts. If you are at an altitude where your .67 < 270 kts then you should descend with mach until your current mach is equal to 270 kts. At 12,000 ft reduce your speed to 250 kts to not bust the 10,000 ft speed limit, and if you are in an airspace with no such limit, then reduce your speed at 10,000 so you don't bust your 8000 ft windscreen bird strike limitation. As far as calculating descents a general rule of thumb is difference in altitude times three.
Example: Cruising at 25,000 you wish to descend to be over the VOR at 5000 ft, you take 25-5=20 -> 20*3=60
So you descend at 60 miles from the VOR. This is a very general and lazy way to do it, if the airplane is heavy it will glide further and you can add 5 miles, if it's light it will dive and you can subtract 5 miles. From hot to cold you can subtract another 5 miles. You can also add 5 miles for the distance it takes to reduce your speed to 200 kts before reaching the IAF.I hope this helps.
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@rj2489
Excellent information, thanks a lot
I really appreciate -
Awesome feedback rj2489 - as a fellow 146/Avro RJ mech out in Canada-land myself you already touched on a lot of the small systems issues I was going to sit down and articulate into a post myself.
Now, my outfit hasn't operated the 146 for some time - but did stick with the Avro's - so I did get a taste of the differences when working on them.
The DC Pump stuff you described is correct. You don't see pressure rise on the Yellow system indication. It's tied to the Brake (and if equipped - Stair accumulator), as well as the emergency main gear extension actuator.
One thing different with the 146 vs. Avro RJ is the "AUTO" SOP of the AC Hyd pump. I can't remember the specifics but I believe it was because the 146 doesn't have a white advisory AC PUMP ON indication (well, our -200 didn't) while the RJ does. Because a spurious hydraulic load could trigger the AC Pump on (ie: gear selected up simultaneously with flap retraction) - on the 146 the AC pump could then be triggered to run forever the whole flight without the crew knowing - unless they look up. So the SOP on our (now retired) 146 was AC Pump (& PTU) selected ON prior to take-off and landing. Off of course for cruise.
I believe the AUTO AC PUMP triggering was improved a bit too to be inhibited with a hodge-podge of relays during certain events as well on the Avro RJ. Don't quote me on that though.
There are three pressurization system controllers available for the 146/RJ. 146 Standard, Avro RJ "Semi-Automatic" and Avro RJ "Digital". The later S/N 146's had provisioning to accept the Avro RJ Semi-Automatic ones, along with being an option on the Avro RJ for fleet commonality - which many operators chose.
I've only worked with the standard one that was normal on the 146 - and the fully digital one on the RJ - but can't remember how the gauge face moved on the old one.One thing that JustFlight improved on the P3D version with my guidance but hasn't seem to have translated into MSFS yet is the engine bleed air handling. Basically, seeing the ENG AIR faults and eng air valve indications when the engines are not outputting sufficient flow. I intend to type up an explainer separately for this forum later.
Would also be nice to see a TGT change and such with Eng Anti-Ice and Airframe stuff selected on. On our 146 in icing conditions - the spring/fall especially - it could be a real dog to keep engine power nominal - especially with a loaded airplane. Never fun for our guys trying to climb out of some coastal muck with a full airplane at <1000ft/min some times. The 146 could be a strange animal when it came to performance. Sure you can take off in <3500 ft no problem but then the subsequent climb would be a groaner at maybe 1000-1500 ft/min. -
@rj2489
We depend in MACH hold mode from our CRZ SPD which is usually about 0.64/0.62M, once this coincides with 280IAS, we switch tiIAS hold. Thrust is adjusted to keep on vertical profile. Usually a ballpark figure of 80% N2 initially and reduce to 70%N2 at IAS change over. Typically 3x distance is a good vertical profile at about 2000fpm.Our RJs are flown with the same speeds in mind (other than 0.66M minimum ABV FL310) and use LVLCNG.
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@plhought That's awesome! I do recall one of our Avros going to Canada a few years ago for a D check I think.
I did forget that the DC pump is indeed also tied to the emergency gear extension.
We have the AC pump ON light in the CSP on only one of our RJs, the other's don't. In our SOPs we set it to auto and leave it like that for the rest of the flight which has caused some disagreement within the company for the same reasons you've mentioned. I think the standard in the RJ is to turn AC pump off and PTU off during the system check at 10,000/18,000 ft, I do recall seeing some faded checklist like that on the yoke but we don't use that, we may have copied our way from Swiss but I can't confirm. Regardless thanks for the clarification on the 146.I also second the ENG AIR faults! The MWS will constantly annoy the hell out of us during taxi as engines idle. We have to train ourselves to not just instinctively cancel the attention getter because of nuisance alarms. The one time you don't look up at an Air Supply/Air Cond it ends up being a PACK HI TEMP.
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@rj2489 said in RJ85/100 FO here with some suggestions:
@plhought That's awesome! I do recall one of our Avros going to Canada a few years ago for a D check I think.
I did forget that the DC pump is indeed also tied to the emergency gear extension.
We have the AC pump ON light in the CSP on only one of our RJs, the other's don't. In our SOPs we set it to auto and leave it like that for the rest of the flight which has caused some disagreement within the company for the same reasons you've mentioned. I think the standard in the RJ is to turn AC pump off and PTU off during the system check at 10,000/18,000 ft, I do recall seeing some faded checklist like that on the yoke but we don't use that, we may have copied our way from Swiss but I can't confirm. Regardless thanks for the clarification on the 146.I also second the ENG AIR faults! The MWS will constantly annoy the hell out of us during taxi as engines idle. We have to train ourselves to not just instinctively cancel the attention getter because of nuisance alarms. The one time you don't look up at an Air Supply/Air Cond it ends up being a PACK HI TEMP.
I feel your pain with regards to nuisance cautions..
Funny how SOPs can vary so much. We select auto on the AC pump when we line up on the RWY, off during the after take-off scans. Then AUTO again for approach, and finally, the FO will no doubt forget to turn it off after landing :-)
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@peterhemm It's the Ignighters which start the combustion process.
