New issues since update v0.3.1 (SOLVED!)
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@jazz said in New issues since update v0.3.1 (SOLVED!):
@katchaplin Hmmm, when you say it's not something they can resolve, what exactly do they mean, I wonder?
It means that a change has been made to the core game and - at the moment - it is not possible to overcome the issues caused by this change by by making changes to the add-on software,.
It can't remain like that forever. Something is broken. What has changed that prevents them from being able to fix this?
Microsoft has released two recent updates (SU6 and 7) that have changed parts of the game code that developers of add-ons interact with. As a consequence, things that worked before SU6 and 7 no longer work. We have made changes to the software and released updates to fix as much as possible, but some things will require changes to the game software or a different approach in the design and coding of the add-on. This a problem that has affected most developers of complex add-ons that don't rely on the default game code.
Are they waiting for Asobo to fix the change?
Not necessarily, but if it is not fixed by them then the add-on software will need to be re-coded in some way, which may, in turn, cause other problems.
And if the change in SU7 is here to stay?
Many of us crave stability in all areas of our lives but, like a cork on a restless ocean, one suspects that more updates for MSFS are planned by Microsoft. There may well be an SU8 due out early next year. What changes that will bring is something we will only know when the time comes.
What will they do then?
What we have done up to now, which is discover what aspects of our produts are affected and do our best to release updates that will resolve the issues.
I must say that response concerns me and I have seen crop up here rather a lot since I bought the Warrior and started loitering here and it's the kind of thing that is putting me off buying the Arrow and Turbo Arrow.
It may be worth checking some of the other add-on developers' forums and, assuming their products are similarly study level/complex as ours, you will find that there will also be much cropping up of this response.
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@derek This is the kind of communication I appreciate. It was always obvious that this would be a problem with this sim and as great as it is to have constant progress on a sim after what was so many years of neglect with FSX, and frankly, even before that, the constant updates are something of a double-edged sword. I'm hoping that much of these addon breaking changes will calm down as the platform matures. I suspect it will but maybe not as soon as we would all like.
One wonders what the communication from them to developers is like regarding these changes before they drop. I suspect they are not providing you much of a heads-up regarding what they are about to break so you can minimize the downtime your customers will suffer but I can see plenty of reasons why that would be problematic.
Anyway, such interactions from developers like yourself are reassuring so thank you for taking the time to respond.
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I also appreciate the fuller explanation. And in this case in particular, the problem is pretty easy to work around, just check before you start the preflight, restart if it's an issue.
While MSFS is something of a moving target at the moment, and I understand the add-on developers' headaches, I think in the longer term we are going to have a much richer more rewarding, and graphically superior, experience than we've ever had in flight simming. So I'm willing to deal with the issues in the short term, as long as quality developers, like Just Flight, don't give up.
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It appears that Mr Randazzo over at PMDG has somewhat confirmed what I wrote regarding my suspicions of the way these updates are being dropped on developers just a few minutes ago.
I'm unsure as to the rules here for linking to other developer forums so will just drop the quote in here but a trip over to their forum for his post is worth your time.
"I must be honest though and say that we are very concerned about continued disruptions to forward progress because of problems introduced by updates in this manner."
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@jazz It is worth bearing in mind that Microsoft has not made their game for the benefit of add-on developers. SU5, for example, was a PITA for us (and others), but was mainly aimed at getting the PC version of MSFS compatible with XBox and therefore making it available to a wider audience. The fact that it 'bust' some add-on content (temporarily) is not really something that MS should have to keep front and centre. Obviously, anyone buying an add-on for MSFS is also an MS customer and it won't do for MS to upset them, but, at the end of the day, it is the core game that must take priority.
A little humility and, an acceptance that the needs of the many outweigh those of the few, is probably the best way to deal with these issues - even for the most august members of the development community. Developers that have registered with MS are given access to beta versions of updates, but, as with our own software, beta and release may differ, so it is up to us to adapt to whatever updates MS have seen fit to apply to their game in order to facilitate their own 'forward progress'. -
@jazz Yes, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.
As far as I've seen, there aren't any outstanding issues with the PC version of the PMDG DC-6, but the Xbox one is so bad due to platform-side issues that it's actually been pulled from the Marketplace. I've heard rumors that the SU5+ issue deluge is delaying their 7X7 from coming out, though I'm not really into modern tubeliners like that so I don't have direct sources.
Aerosoft has to keep delaying their Twin Otter because of it.
The REX Weather Force Discord is a hot mess; I understand the frustration of buying an add-on during these tumultuous few months, but they're obviously a small team working the issues and taking a lot of flak for their inability to immediately fix everything that was broken.
And we see here the direct results on JF.
@Derek There is, indeed, a SU8 due out in mid-late February of next year. It is supposed to be primarily, if not almost entirely, bug "fixes". That doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy, but I am just an end user, so I get to just sit here and kibitz. I loved your Piper planes for MSFS so much I got a custom panel from Flight Velocity to build myself a cockpit, so you'll get no grief from me.
I honestly hope Asobo turns this trend around.
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@jmarkows MSFS has publicly stated they will not support 3rd party Weather add-ons, so the fact that REX doesn't work right doesn't surprise me in the least. As far as a 'sad state of affairs', I disagree. While MSFS has issues, and updates cause problems, those problems get worked out eventually, and the sim is so much better than any other out there out of the box. And in general, the updates are responses to issues and attempts for the most part to make the sim better. Yes, FSX is a stable platform, but the engine is over 20 years old and hasn't been updated since, what, 2006?
I am still very excited about the future of MSFS, and I am willing to deal with short term issues to get to a sim that's already ahead of the others.
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@katchaplin MSFS is actually my first foray into the flight sim world as an adult, and the first I've played since the early 2000s at the latest. So I'm not approaching it with nostalgia glasses on for another sim.
I got it late last year and really threw myself into it. I have no real life piloting experience, but I've picked up a bunch of add ons and courses so I can learn how to properly fly, even if I never translate that into a pilot's license. I'm in it for the long haul, too.
I've just been feeling very discouraged lately because of the update quality. Maybe I'm colored because I see similar issues in my real life job, but to me this stinks of management pushing for features, features, features and not giving any time for bug or defect fixing, and then acting surprised when people (customers) get mad it's in poor shape. To me, letting an update out the door with a major bug like the TrackIR issue is absolutely egregious; they have to know a significant portion of the community uses it, and yet they pushed it out anyway. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn because I'm an engineer, not a software guy, but if I was calling the shots that's not how I would run it.
I know we have another 9 years of planned support and I know it will stabilize by then, but it doesn't have to be like this now.
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@jmarkows said in New issues since update v0.3.1 (SOLVED!):
they have to know a significant portion of the community uses
But that's not the case. Compared to the number of users on X-Box, for example, TrackIR is a very small drop in the ocean. Initially, there wasn't going to be VR support - as there is actually not huge demand for it from the main user base - but MS changed their mind. You have to accept (as we do, as developers) that the add-on market is small compared to the bigger picture. MSFS has been hugely popular and most users have not noticed any issues with many of the updates. It's not up to MS to test their patches for add-on compatibility. That's our job, and playing catch up is the price we pay for having a huge potential market and the price our customers have to pay for not wanting the vanilla experience that the default game offers. 'twas ever thus and is the way X-Plane has worked for donkey's years.
