Yaw oscillations
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Since the last update, even the slightest aileron or rudder input will cause the plane to start yawing left and right in an oscillating fashion for several seconds. I get adverse yaw is a thing, but this is a continued oscillation even after all inputs are neutralized.
Changing yaw_stability from 0.1 to 1 doesn't help.
I've never actually flown a plane IRL so maybe this is accurate, but to me it seems to continue oscillating longer than it should. Could anyone let me know if this is realistic?
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Since the last update, even the slightest aileron or rudder input will cause the plane to start yawing left and right in an oscillating fashion for several seconds. I get adverse yaw is a thing, but this is a continued oscillation even after all inputs are neutralized.
Changing yaw_stability from 0.1 to 1 doesn't help.
I've never actually flown a plane IRL so maybe this is accurate, but to me it seems to continue oscillating longer than it should. Could anyone let me know if this is realistic?
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@vcapra1 this is feature not problem. In IRL that's what it looks like but it would be possible to reduce the feeling of this effect by half or little, because not everyone has well-calibrated pedals to feel it correctly.
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The flight model around yaw in MSFS 2020 isn't very good, frankly. There are numerous posts on the MSFS 2020 forums about this.
Long story short, there seems to be adverse yaw when you roll in or out of a turn, but when holding the turn, the libelle (the ball in the turn-and-slip indicator) goes back to center as if the plane just self-eliminates adverse yaw.
If you try to use the rudder like in real life where you expect some adverse yaw throughout the turn, then the libelle will really bounce around on you. You'll "step on the ball" in the direction of the turn as you roll in, then it will strangely jump to the opposite direction from the turn as you finishing rolling in, so your instinct will be to "step on the ball" again and apply opposite rudder, then it will jump back to the turn side, ad nauseum. I was doing this for awhile until I figured out what was happening.
Basically, to do MSFS 2020 style turn coordination, only use the rudder when you are using the ailerons to roll, in the same direction and to a proportional amount, and you'll fly around coordinated. (Of course, you can also use the rudder to intentionally yaw the plane during landings, etc.) It's a bit unrealistic, but it works.
Hope this helps. I wish someone told me this back whenever they introduced this semi-adverse-yaw into the sim.
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The flight model around yaw in MSFS 2020 isn't very good, frankly. There are numerous posts on the MSFS 2020 forums about this.
Long story short, there seems to be adverse yaw when you roll in or out of a turn, but when holding the turn, the libelle (the ball in the turn-and-slip indicator) goes back to center as if the plane just self-eliminates adverse yaw.
If you try to use the rudder like in real life where you expect some adverse yaw throughout the turn, then the libelle will really bounce around on you. You'll "step on the ball" in the direction of the turn as you roll in, then it will strangely jump to the opposite direction from the turn as you finishing rolling in, so your instinct will be to "step on the ball" again and apply opposite rudder, then it will jump back to the turn side, ad nauseum. I was doing this for awhile until I figured out what was happening.
Basically, to do MSFS 2020 style turn coordination, only use the rudder when you are using the ailerons to roll, in the same direction and to a proportional amount, and you'll fly around coordinated. (Of course, you can also use the rudder to intentionally yaw the plane during landings, etc.) It's a bit unrealistic, but it works.
Hope this helps. I wish someone told me this back whenever they introduced this semi-adverse-yaw into the sim.
@hc_born Adverse yaw has always been a problem with the MSFS series - in earlier versions you actually had to hold the rudder in through the entire turn, and you needed more rudder the steeper the bank angle. It totally ignored the aileron position!
As in real life, I tend to watch the nose position against the horizon to get a good view of how coordinated my turns are - the turn and slip indicator in the sim has never been the 'best behaving' of instruments. The bulk of the adverse yaw in a turn comes from the aileron deflection and the associated altered lift profile creating more drag on the raising wing. However, once established in a turn, ailerons centred, the two wings return to having the same profile as in level flight and the adverse yaw is removed.
I don't think either the sim or the hardware we currently have are advanced enough to deal with the nuances of a constantly-moving air fluid, the 'jockeying' of the pedals needed to keep the nose where you want it. The current sim is (since SU5) capable of creating adverse yaw in a very blunt fashion - it is literally two lines, aileron up drag and aileron down drag. Hopefully there will be further improvements but I think that in this area at least the new sim is better than what went before.
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The flight model around yaw in MSFS 2020 isn't very good, frankly. There are numerous posts on the MSFS 2020 forums about this.
Long story short, there seems to be adverse yaw when you roll in or out of a turn, but when holding the turn, the libelle (the ball in the turn-and-slip indicator) goes back to center as if the plane just self-eliminates adverse yaw.
If you try to use the rudder like in real life where you expect some adverse yaw throughout the turn, then the libelle will really bounce around on you. You'll "step on the ball" in the direction of the turn as you roll in, then it will strangely jump to the opposite direction from the turn as you finishing rolling in, so your instinct will be to "step on the ball" again and apply opposite rudder, then it will jump back to the turn side, ad nauseum. I was doing this for awhile until I figured out what was happening.
Basically, to do MSFS 2020 style turn coordination, only use the rudder when you are using the ailerons to roll, in the same direction and to a proportional amount, and you'll fly around coordinated. (Of course, you can also use the rudder to intentionally yaw the plane during landings, etc.) It's a bit unrealistic, but it works.
Hope this helps. I wish someone told me this back whenever they introduced this semi-adverse-yaw into the sim.
@hc_born said in Yaw oscillations:
The flight model around yaw in MSFS 2020 isn't very good, frankly. There are numerous posts on the MSFS 2020 forums about this.
Totally agree - yaw is by far the poorest of the three primary axes in both behaviour and ability to adjust. There are serious upcoming improvements to the core FM in this area, hopefully they will help.
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@hc_born said in Yaw oscillations:
The flight model around yaw in MSFS 2020 isn't very good, frankly. There are numerous posts on the MSFS 2020 forums about this.
Totally agree - yaw is by far the poorest of the three primary axes in both behaviour and ability to adjust. There are serious upcoming improvements to the core FM in this area, hopefully they will help.
@delta558 I just know that I have an extremely hard time keeping the plane pointed to where I want on initial takeoff and landings compared to the stock GA aircraft in the game, and also the competitors version of the PA28. I know this plane is much more detailed though but it's a struggle for me.
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@delta558 I just know that I have an extremely hard time keeping the plane pointed to where I want on initial takeoff and landings compared to the stock GA aircraft in the game, and also the competitors version of the PA28. I know this plane is much more detailed though but it's a struggle for me.
@jshrew98 Yeah the problem is more apparent with the Arrow, but that doesn't mean other aircraft are better. The other aircraft don't simulate adverse yaw at all, or it is far too little. So even full aileron input doesn't require any rudder input at all to keep the ball more or less centered.
I can more or less do a coordinated turn if I enter it slowly enough. But try something like rocking the wings and the plane will be rocking its nose for 30 seconds (slight exaggeration).
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@hc_born said in Yaw oscillations:
The flight model around yaw in MSFS 2020 isn't very good, frankly. There are numerous posts on the MSFS 2020 forums about this.
Totally agree - yaw is by far the poorest of the three primary axes in both behaviour and ability to adjust. There are serious upcoming improvements to the core FM in this area, hopefully they will help.
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@delta558 said in Yaw oscillations:
There are serious upcoming improvements to the core FM in this area, hopefully they will help.
Could you clarify what you mean by this (if you're allowed to)?
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@vcapra1 not sure that I'm allowed to yet - NDAs and all that. I will say, though, that they are looking in the right direction! If I find out that I can, I will.