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Required Trim for landing?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PA-28R Turbo Arrow III/IV
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  • KevyKevTPAK Offline
    KevyKevTPAK Offline
    KevyKevTPA
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    It's been my experience so far with the Turbo Arrows (that I LOOOOVE) that I have to have a butt-load of nose up trim dialed in to have enough elevator authority to flare correctly. Not enough results in a nose down touchdown/bounce/occasional crash, almost enough results in a pancake 3 wheeled landing, it's only with a TON of nose up trim that I can get a decent flare and land on my mains.

    Now, keep in mind I'm a RL pilot, and while I was always more of a Cessna guy, I do have some time in Arrows, and I sure don't remember this kind of behavior.

    Am I doing something wrong? Just nuts? (Wait, don't answer that last one... 😉 ) Or is this pretty normal for this b1rd?

    Thanks,
    Kev

    Kevin Moseley
    PP, ASEL, IA
    i5-10600K, RTX3080 FTW3, 64GB, lots of m.2 and SSD space

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Moridin
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Just crashed yesterday since I couldn’t pull my yoke out further. Seems my trim setting was fine until it wasn’t, just before the runway and flaring.

      KevyKevTPAK 1 Reply Last reply
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      • M Moridin

        Just crashed yesterday since I couldn’t pull my yoke out further. Seems my trim setting was fine until it wasn’t, just before the runway and flaring.

        KevyKevTPAK Offline
        KevyKevTPAK Offline
        KevyKevTPA
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @Moridin So it's not just me. I'm going to try to file a support request, but I'm not sure how to. If you (or anyone else reading this) wants to do so yourself, please do. The more the merrier as it'll get more attention.

        Thanks for your reply!
        Kev

        Kevin Moseley
        PP, ASEL, IA
        i5-10600K, RTX3080 FTW3, 64GB, lots of m.2 and SSD space

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        • D Offline
          D Offline
          Delta558
          Developer
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Out of interest, are you using the IV when you get this?

          Just Flight FDE developer

          M 1 Reply Last reply
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          • D Delta558

            Out of interest, are you using the IV when you get this?

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Moridin
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @Delta558 III Turbo

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            • D Offline
              D Offline
              Delta558
              Developer
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Okay, I'd expect that behaviour with the IV because of the smaller horizontal tail and the fact that it is out of the propwash - that variant was known for the need to fly the nosewheel onto the runway before the pitch control was lost.

              I've just flown a quick approach below recommended approach speeds (I flew the approach at 70kts, full flap and reduced to 60 over the threshold), trim bug was just aft of the white marker, so not at all excessive. Flare was normal (a little over half back stick) and once on the ground I was able to raise and lower the nose continually down to just under 40kts.

              Are you using the suggested linear curves for the controllers (as the aircraft was developed with)?

              Just Flight FDE developer

              E 1 Reply Last reply
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              • D Delta558

                Okay, I'd expect that behaviour with the IV because of the smaller horizontal tail and the fact that it is out of the propwash - that variant was known for the need to fly the nosewheel onto the runway before the pitch control was lost.

                I've just flown a quick approach below recommended approach speeds (I flew the approach at 70kts, full flap and reduced to 60 over the threshold), trim bug was just aft of the white marker, so not at all excessive. Flare was normal (a little over half back stick) and once on the ground I was able to raise and lower the nose continually down to just under 40kts.

                Are you using the suggested linear curves for the controllers (as the aircraft was developed with)?

                E Offline
                E Offline
                ElKebek
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @Delta558 Where can we find the suggested linear curves for the controllers ? Thanks !

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                • D Offline
                  D Offline
                  Delta558
                  Developer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  ![alt text](Control Sensitivities.JPG image url)

                  Just Flight FDE developer

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                  • D Offline
                    D Offline
                    daniel6389
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    I’ve got issues with trim as well. During clean flight it’s takes a LOT of down pressure on the yoke to keep the nose from popping up. Like all the way to -7. Extremely tail heavy with trim zeroed out. Something doesn’t seem right. If I don’t zero it back out, it makes landing difficult in the same way you describe.

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