747 Classic Progress
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We actively do not speculate on release dates or completion.
It's a large project, but it has been in development now for 2 years, so make of that what you will. :winking_face_with_tongue:
Work continues... :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
but it's good to know that development is back on track for now
It was never off-track...just delayed slightly due to personal issues. :pensive_face:
Anyway...we will try to start showing you stuff at some point! We are closer to the end than the beginning!
If you're curious, we're at around 75,000 lines of code and counting, and the project started from zero.
If there is anything about the systems development you'd like to know (how a system is developed generally, or how a specific system is implemented in the sim) please feel free to ask and I'll answer as far as I can. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Best regards,
Robin.@B744ERF
Could you tell me what the most complex system is? And in what degree it has been developed up to now? -
@B744ERF
Could you tell me what the most complex system is? And in what degree it has been developed up to now?@centurion88 said in 747 Classic Progress:
@B744ERF
Could you tell me what the most complex system is? And in what degree it has been developed up to now?That would be the INS/AP combination.
It's modelled as far as normal operation, and in totality. If the real unit does it, this does it.
The AP and AT logic has been painstakingly replicated. There are some quirks that are not detailed in the manual, and we cover these as well (such as engagement logic and reversions).
Not far away from that would be the pressurization system. It models the air pressure within the cabin and considers various factors such as ambient pressure, outflow valve position, and even whether the toilet extraction fan is on (when it is ON the pressurization requirements measurably increase to compensate). Because of the way pressure is simulated, it also permits the simulation of over-pressure events on the ground before takeoff, and pack-trip logic isn't simply canned - it actually reacts to the situation presented. None of the system behaviors are "pre-programmed".
The vast majority of the systems are equally detailed. I'm most pleased with the air data system - you will need to be aware of the OAT and apply cold-temperature corrections, especially on approach, as the altimetry system responds correctly to changes in air density which is something I have not seen in any other simulator. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
Best regards,
Robin.JustFlight 747 Classic Developer
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@centurion88 said in 747 Classic Progress:
@B744ERF
Could you tell me what the most complex system is? And in what degree it has been developed up to now?That would be the INS/AP combination.
It's modelled as far as normal operation, and in totality. If the real unit does it, this does it.
The AP and AT logic has been painstakingly replicated. There are some quirks that are not detailed in the manual, and we cover these as well (such as engagement logic and reversions).
Not far away from that would be the pressurization system. It models the air pressure within the cabin and considers various factors such as ambient pressure, outflow valve position, and even whether the toilet extraction fan is on (when it is ON the pressurization requirements measurably increase to compensate). Because of the way pressure is simulated, it also permits the simulation of over-pressure events on the ground before takeoff, and pack-trip logic isn't simply canned - it actually reacts to the situation presented. None of the system behaviors are "pre-programmed".
The vast majority of the systems are equally detailed. I'm most pleased with the air data system - you will need to be aware of the OAT and apply cold-temperature corrections, especially on approach, as the altimetry system responds correctly to changes in air density which is something I have not seen in any other simulator. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
Best regards,
Robin. -
@B744ERF neat, I can only hope the exterior model is tweaked to match the glory of all the systems and the interior model
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@centurion88 said in 747 Classic Progress:
@B744ERF
Could you tell me what the most complex system is? And in what degree it has been developed up to now?That would be the INS/AP combination.
It's modelled as far as normal operation, and in totality. If the real unit does it, this does it.
The AP and AT logic has been painstakingly replicated. There are some quirks that are not detailed in the manual, and we cover these as well (such as engagement logic and reversions).
Not far away from that would be the pressurization system. It models the air pressure within the cabin and considers various factors such as ambient pressure, outflow valve position, and even whether the toilet extraction fan is on (when it is ON the pressurization requirements measurably increase to compensate). Because of the way pressure is simulated, it also permits the simulation of over-pressure events on the ground before takeoff, and pack-trip logic isn't simply canned - it actually reacts to the situation presented. None of the system behaviors are "pre-programmed".
The vast majority of the systems are equally detailed. I'm most pleased with the air data system - you will need to be aware of the OAT and apply cold-temperature corrections, especially on approach, as the altimetry system responds correctly to changes in air density which is something I have not seen in any other simulator. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
Best regards,
Robin. -
@Noob21 I think Robin is only responsible for the programming of the systems so I’m not sure if he can give you an answer for that but I’m sure some changes have been made
@JoeNuts oh I’m sure he is only responsible for the systems, I can’t expect anyone to do all that work, especially when the systems are so complex, I was just saying how I hope the modeling team fix some of the errors with the exterior model as it looks a bit lackluster, especially compared to some of JF’s other aircraft like their upcoming A300 which looks fantastic.
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@JoeNuts oh I’m sure he is only responsible for the systems, I can’t expect anyone to do all that work, especially when the systems are so complex, I was just saying how I hope the modeling team fix some of the errors with the exterior model as it looks a bit lackluster, especially compared to some of JF’s other aircraft like their upcoming A300 which looks fantastic.
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Ijust hope that when it is finished it is true to the original 747 and not a -100 with all the mods that it saw through the years. Please dont airbus a classic beauty.
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Ijust hope that when it is finished it is true to the original 747 and not a -100 with all the mods that it saw through the years. Please dont airbus a classic beauty.
@CptKiddAPI There are already going to be options available with regards to the avionics equipment, so the original -100 FD and AP will be included I believe
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I'm pretty sure the that each Autopilot (and Flight Director) was hard-wired to its own INS, so A-1, B-2, and C-3, although the pilot's instrument source information could be switched from one side to the other, using the series of switches at the bottom of the pilot's panels.
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I'm pretty sure the that each Autopilot (and Flight Director) was hard-wired to its own INS, so A-1, B-2, and C-3, although the pilot's instrument source information could be switched from one side to the other, using the series of switches at the bottom of the pilot's panels.
@tb10driver said in 747 Classic Progress:
I'm pretty sure the that each Autopilot (and Flight Director) was hard-wired to its own INS, so A-1, B-2, and C-3, although the pilot's instrument source information could be switched from one side to the other, using the series of switches at the bottom of the pilot's panels.
Correct.
If an INS dumps and can't be used anymore for navigation, you need to engage another autopilot channel.
The source switches are for the instrumentation, not flight guidance.
The HSI has small flags denoting from which source it is presently displaying information.
Best regards,
Robin.JustFlight 747 Classic Developer
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@tb10driver said in 747 Classic Progress:
I'm pretty sure the that each Autopilot (and Flight Director) was hard-wired to its own INS, so A-1, B-2, and C-3, although the pilot's instrument source information could be switched from one side to the other, using the series of switches at the bottom of the pilot's panels.
Correct.
If an INS dumps and can't be used anymore for navigation, you need to engage another autopilot channel.
The source switches are for the instrumentation, not flight guidance.
The HSI has small flags denoting from which source it is presently displaying information.
Best regards,
Robin. -
@CptKiddAPI There are already going to be options available with regards to the avionics equipment, so the original -100 FD and AP will be included I believe
@SimeonWilbury I am glad to hear this, I prefer the original INS setup and original overall setup over mods from the latter years like fms etc.
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This might be a little bit early to ask but do you intend to bring the same system depth (for example the complex simulation of the pressurization system, accurate AP/AT behaviour, etc.) to the X-Plane version as well once the time comes? Hope it will be very close the wonderful P3D version in terms of simulation depth.
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@JoeNuts said in 747 Classic Progress:
@B744ERF Thanks for the explanation, I’m not that familiar with the triple INS setup yet
Triple INS has several benefits, and is required for oceanic flight:
- Redundancy (3 units are better than two)
- Three units are the minimum required for position mixing
Position mixing is where the inertial positions of all three INS are mixed (NOT averaged) using a specific algorithm that weights the individual inertial positions to produce the "mixed position", that represents the aircraft position for all navigation.
In triple mix, each INS does the following:
- Determines its own inertial position at all times
- Reads position data from the other two units
- Calculates the mix position
- Compares its data with the other units
- If they agree, then they all use the same position mix data which is applied as a correction to their own internal inertial position
- The triple mix position data is updated as the aircraft flies and the above functions repeat
- If a unit diverges from the triple position too much (drift rate too high or position invalid) then the system reverts to single-unit operation but maintains the last good triple mix update (in single-unit mode, the triple mix update can be cleared from each unit by the pilot should it be inaccurate).
Even in single-unit mode, there are continuous checks on various sub-systems, and depending on what faults are detected, generates error codes.
Most position faults are terminal in flight and can't be corrected. The only positional error that can be fixed is a bad position update, but generally once a unit loses its position, it can only be used for attitude information.
If a platform "topples" (literally stops remaining parallel to the local surface) then the unit is completely inoperative and must be switched off.
Local surface refers to the Earth's surface directly underneath the aircraft/unit.
JustFlight 747 Classic Developer
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@JoeNuts said in 747 Classic Progress:
@B744ERF Thanks for the explanation, I’m not that familiar with the triple INS setup yet
Triple INS has several benefits, and is required for oceanic flight:
- Redundancy (3 units are better than two)
- Three units are the minimum required for position mixing
Position mixing is where the inertial positions of all three INS are mixed (NOT averaged) using a specific algorithm that weights the individual inertial positions to produce the "mixed position", that represents the aircraft position for all navigation.
In triple mix, each INS does the following:
- Determines its own inertial position at all times
- Reads position data from the other two units
- Calculates the mix position
- Compares its data with the other units
- If they agree, then they all use the same position mix data which is applied as a correction to their own internal inertial position
- The triple mix position data is updated as the aircraft flies and the above functions repeat
- If a unit diverges from the triple position too much (drift rate too high or position invalid) then the system reverts to single-unit operation but maintains the last good triple mix update (in single-unit mode, the triple mix update can be cleared from each unit by the pilot should it be inaccurate).
Even in single-unit mode, there are continuous checks on various sub-systems, and depending on what faults are detected, generates error codes.
Most position faults are terminal in flight and can't be corrected. The only positional error that can be fixed is a bad position update, but generally once a unit loses its position, it can only be used for attitude information.
If a platform "topples" (literally stops remaining parallel to the local surface) then the unit is completely inoperative and must be switched off.
Local surface refers to the Earth's surface directly underneath the aircraft/unit.
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@B744ERF Hi, I know that you don't really speculate on a release date yet, but as things currently stand would you say that a release sometime this year might be realistic or do you think it'll take longer than that? Thanks.
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@JoeNuts Should be this year, yes. Sooner rather than too much later too. Fingers crossed.
@Voice-of-Reason
Could you please release some vids demonstrated the sounds of cockpit and engines? Just like what you've done with Bae 146 and A300. -
@Voice-of-Reason
Could you please release some vids demonstrated the sounds of cockpit and engines? Just like what you've done with Bae 146 and A300.@centurion88 Will try our best to sort some for you, just balancing between progressing the code and getting new In dev material out to you patience people. Thanks, just bear with us.
