Plane can´t stall
-
Out of curiosity i found this peculiar behavior which can probably be linked to the fact that the stick pusher doesn´t run out of stall air, when in reality it should after three attempts (wiht eng 2 & 3 bleeds set to "off"). But even if we disregard that the plane should run out of airspeed on idle thrust eventually...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrXhJG_tGEs
is this ticket material? I didn´t expect it to model the stall air system, but flying a perpetuum mobile feels a bit bland...
-
Please open a ticket about this. Even with the pusher it should stall at some point...
-
BAEflyer, I read what you have written but doubt the area is modelled for the flight sim.
For very good reasons the stalling of the 146/RJ is not an area that is well explored or documented, and not an area that an airline pilot would want to go near. Hence the reason the stick shake and pusher are fitted and required to be working for each flight.
During production testing, each and every aircraft required extra instrumentation to be fitted on the glare shield for the pilots to know exactly what the speed, pitch and yaw was when taking the aircraft to the stick-push. ‘T’ tailed aircraft can have very odd and unpredictable (unrecoverable) flying behaviour if taken into a full stall.
-
@Paul-Cairns yeah... that´s probably it.
It´s either that or BAe developed a secret anti-gravity propulsion system.Yout don´t have to watch this till the end. You should though if you want to know what happend with no engines and APU running...
-
Something that I’ve been thrown in the sim after the mandatory check and good fun It’s a good way to do a LOT of the EMGY procedures in limited time too.
But the most enjoyable was the annual 3-eng ferry that as usual results in another engine failure at V1 (now both out on the one side) and thus a ‘go’ situation. After the mandatory drills etc followed by a go-around for a visual 2-eng circuit another failure… VIB warning and out of balance motion that the sim replicated very well. The engine then failed completely (simulated to have detached) when turning base. Single engine approach to land (engine limits go out the window) and on landing a main gear collapse. Not the end yet… full evacuation procedures/briefing etc, etc.
-
What would i expect?
Okay, let me put this differently:
for how long do you think a plane of 30 tons could stay "afloat" without engines and APU running (without making contact with the ground sooner or later)i started recording after about 4 minutes, fyi, and lost a total of like 1.000 ft. over the course of eight minutes. Without engines.
and @knidarkness after "descending rapidly" there was a phase of climbing rapidly. Over and over again. And, excuse me for explicitly pointing this out again: without engines.
If this is considered nitpicking: so be it. I considered it a bug at best or even more like something out of a Captain Sim feaver dream. So there´s my report. If somebody wants to do something about it in the next patch: great! If not: i don´t care.But let me add this since it will be brought up anyways:
Yes, i know it is a Simulator, and a flight simulator (not crash simulator) by that, and i am all in for "realistic expectations". But the fact that the product bears the word "professionel" in the very title implies that a certain level of realism can be expected.Large planes don´t stay airborne (as in "at the same altitude")without engines and APU running for extended durations. Period.
I hope this doesn´t come across the wrong way, i really do.
Have a nice sunday.
-
Re “basic” like a stall.
The aircraft is not certified for stalling. Activation of both the STICK SHAKER and STICK PUSH are both treated as memory drills and are contained within the EMERGENCY (note, not Abnormal) procedures.
Now, I know you wannabe test pilots are itching to push the flight envelope of the 146/RJ sim model, but what do you want… a deep and unrecoverable plummet? What next… spinning, a knife edge pass, a 3/4 flick roll to erect from 45* upward knife edge? If you want that go get an Extra sim model.
-
@Paul-Cairns nowhere in my last post did I write about stall behaviour.
It was about the plane basically flying along for at least 8 minutes without losing altitude with the engines and the APU off.
The plane remained at 23.000 for minutes on end without propulsion and electrical power. -
@BAEflyer. The comment was not directed at you. Re “basic” like a stall was a reference to the comment in the post above mine.
-
@BAEflyer I did not fly it for a long while so your comment got me curious. And don't get me wrong, the RJ series is not perfect, that's true.
That said, here is my little exercise with the RJ85 at around 45t gross weight -- youtube video. Disclaimer: this is done inside MSFS2020, so I have no clue what it behaves like inside 2024.
A few findings/points from myself:
- Close to stall -- Stall protection kicks in and seems to work fine. You end up with a "mostly controlled, but vastly inefficient descent" due to the stick pusher. If pushed too hard (in my video -- adverse yaw + speedbrake) airplane stalls and snaps into a spin, but it never fully develops. Here I can not comment on the realism of the post-stall behavior, but on the 1st attempt it seems "mostly believable".
- unfortunately, even with stick pusher inhibit buttons pushed in, stick pusher/shaker still activates. If I am missing something in how to disable the stall protection system, I would appreciate it.
- regarding the "climbing without engines" -- that seems wildly weird to me. I guess it makes sense to talk to support, but in my video I tried turning off engines at 10k baro alt (ground elevation is ~600ft MSL) and got a total glide of ~27nm, ending with terrain contact at about 600ft AMSL. This gives us a glide ratio of about 17 (27 * 6000 / 9400). This seems to be in the "sane" region, and seems to mostly match with some of the discussions I could find online: here, here, and here
Good weekend & new year to you too!
-
Well, on second thought I am probably with @Paul-Cairns on this as i of course do lack the knowledge of the plane´s stalling and even flying characteristics. The fact that the stick pusher would run out of bleed air after (god forbid) continous operation (which it doesn´t in the sim) might also affect the planes behaviour to a large degree, so that´s that.
IIRC (!) the stick pusher inhibit buttons would have to be pressed both at a time in case of a faulty stick pusher indication in order to actually inhibit the push... Could be wrong though but i don´t even think you can push two buttons at once with the given control scheme in any JF plane. I would also say that this systems is definitely too specific to be modelled.
happy new year y´all
