Product Suggestion - a vintage Radio Nav Aid database.
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With today's F-28 release, and the recent BAe146, I'm wondering whether the world of VORs and NDBs could be revived. Much as we love the older aircraft, the number of radio nav aids they use is diminishing.
What is the feasibility of going back in time to when they were at their peak - not sure when that would be...80s, 90s maybe - and producing a database of them, compatible with Little Nav Map etc ? I know it can be done, because Bush Divers has resurrected some beacons in Papua New Guinea.
What say you, JF chaps ?
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@paul_k said in Product Suggestion - a vintage Radio Nav Aid database.:
With today's F-28 release, and the recent BAe146, I'm wondering whether the world of VORs and NDBs could be revived. Much as we love the older aircraft, the number of radio nav aids they use is diminishing.
What is the feasibility of going back in time to when they were at their peak - not sure when that would be...80s, 90s maybe - and producing a database of them, compatible with Little Nav Map etc ? I know it can be done, because Bush Divers has resurrected some beacons in Papua New Guinea.
What say you, JF chaps ?
Coincidentally, I was chatting to someone in the radio ham community the other day and they were bemoaning the loss of beacons - there are quite a few enthusiasts who still 'find' VORs and NDBs etc on the airwaves.
What you propose is an admirable task but no idea who would be up for creating such a thing and, unfortunately, like a lot of good ideas, it wouldn't have much commercial potential. The ham community will probably have access to a database and it would then need some dedicated person to turn that into a freeware add-on.
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@derek Yes, commercial potential is the problem, I suppose. It's a bit of a conundrum, because a lot of people ( myself included ) like the vintage aircraft, but the means to navigate them is in decline. Maybe JF could keep an ear to the ground about it, and let us know if they hear of anything. I'd ask at Avsim, but it'll only lead to the usual "Why do you want to fly old aircraft?" nonsense.
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@paul_k
This is actually something that we've internally highlighted a need for, due to aircraft like the 146 and F28 as it would be great to be able to include navaids from their eras. Recently people from JF met and spoke with reps from a couple of the companies that specialise in navigation databases, but unfortunately none still retain data from that period.
Hopefully one day we'll be able to locate a source for the data. -
@rich I really hope you can find the information you need - it would re-open the door for many older airliners (coughVC-10cough). There's plenty of interest in older aircraft in MSFS, and to have the old radio nav world restored would be just the job. I hope you guys keep it in mind. Thanks for responding.
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@Rich It's not too hard to find sets of Jepp charts from bygone years on eBay and there are archives online where you can find old charts, but usually a bit older. You'd have to do legwork converting that to digital information you could use in sim, of course, but the data are out there.
Additionally, a freeware package circa 1958 was recently released on flightsim.to that accomplishes this same goal. It's too early to be super relevant to JFs current product lineup -- you really would want something from the 80s I think -- but it shows that it can be done. https://flightsim.to/file/71888/golden-age-of-air-travel-u-s-navaids-as-of-1958
They've used some archived sectionals, etc. from the Library of Congress.
Some examples of what you can find on eBay:
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/276402321024
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/276403704780
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/335236352094
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/266624124286
Obviously you're not going to get a 100% complete set of procedures for the US or elsewhere piecing things together from eBay listings like these, but occasionally you do see more complete sets of charts come up for sale on eBay.
I would be surprised if Jeppesen doesn't have an archive of some kind?
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Hello,
I am the creator of the Golden Age of Air Travel 1958 navaids package referenced above.
I find the topic of having historically correct navaids very much relevant for old aircraft (be it from 50s, 60s... or 90s). So I am happy to see JustFlight is aware 👍
My 2 cents...
Data
Data are there but in very different formats (paper charts, lists, tables), not georeferenced and from different time periods. You want to have reliable data covering all navaids from one cut off date. Not easy to find. And then there's gaps in data like missing ranges etc.Workload
It was a lot of work. A lot. It is not only about having a source but actually it was a challenge to get it into the sim. If you are interested about the workflow, check the thread here:https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/released-u-s-golden-age-of-air-travel-1958-navaids/629250
Commercial potential
It is just not there.
I got a few very positive and heartwarming feedbacks but the package has got only some 160 downloads from fs.to (no updates yet so these are pretty much unique downloads).So such a project is clearly a niche within a niche.
Other considerations
Navaids is just a part of the full picture. Such a scenery package should also contain period correct enroute planning charts (VFR and IFR), approach charts and for 1960s+ periods also SIDs and STARs in order to be able to replicate the flights in their full glory.Many runways are gone as are some airports... etc.
My take
I would buy such navaids sceneries in a heartbeat. If I turn it the other way around, I will probably think twice before I get a 1970s or 1980s aircraft because I think without putting them into their historically correct context it makes little sense (to me) to fly them.In the end, I made the 1958 navaids scenery because I wanted to fly the DC-6 as it was meant to be flown 😀
Milan
